Ambien to valium c/o concern

As I begin the c/o from ambien to valium tonight......I'm still faced with the question of how long it should take......as I didn't see a schedule from Ashton......just schedules for the benzos.  So......I was going to follow what Dr. Peart has written up but increase the length of time......thinking three days is too fast.  I am ready to take the 5 mg. of ambien with 2.5 mg of valium along with my regular dose of Ativan.  I would assume I should do this for about a week or so before getting rid of the ambien and replacing it with the 5 mg. of valium.  Then.......I have a schedule for reducing the Ativan so I can eventually be on all valium.......then taper from there.

Any thoughts or suggestions about the length of the c/o would be appreciated.  I haven't come across any other info for crossing ambien to valium.

Cheryl

Cheryl,

I don't understand the logic of substituting a benzo (Valium) for a non-benzodiazepine (Ambien), to me it seems counter productive.  If your goal is to eliminate the benzo from your life, increasing it makes no sense.  It's quite possible to taper from Ambien without substitution, it's also possible to CT from it.  I did that and felt nothing like I did when I CT'd the Klonopin.  I was taking about 100 mg of Ambien a day and it was easy comparatively speaking, the only thing I suffered was a few nights of nightmares and sleeplessness for a couple of weeks. 

I haven't been following your blog, so I don't know how you arrived at your decision, I can only tell you now that I don't feel it's a good idea.  You're only going to give your body more benzo to withdraw from when you are ready to begin your taper from Valium. 

Just my belated two cents worth.

By the way, this is what Dr Ashton suggests for the non-benzodiazepines:

In my experience, the only exception to the general rule of slow reduction is triazolam (Halcion). This benzodiazepine is eliminated so quickly (half-life 2 hours) that you are practically withdrawn each day, after a dose the night before. For this reason, triazolam can be stopped abruptly without substitution of a long-acting benzodiazepine. If withdrawal symptoms occur, you could take a short course of diazepam starting at about 10mg, decreasing the dosage as shown on Schedule 2. The same approach applies to the non-benzodiazepines zolpidem and zaleplon which both have half-lives of 2 hours.

Pam

Hi Cheryl,

I fully agree with Pam. I too have had my runs with my ambien (5 months from feb 08 to june 08, then back on in september of 08 until feb of 09). Both times, although terrified to quit, I did so cold turkey and it was litterly like night and day compared to my klono taper...and I'm only in the beginning of my taper from klono.

As pam has said, you could easily taper off the Ambien, and then begin your real taper from ativan. I don't wanna act like Ambien is "nothing"...it's definetly a strong med. But it truly is a breeze for almost everyone compared to benzos.

If sleep is your main concern, perhaps you could talk with your doctor of adding a medicine with strong anti-histamine properties as a more safe alternative to ambien.

Pam and Yorba,

Thanks for the posts.  I actually got the idea from a schedule by Dr. Peart showing a c/o from ambien and ativan to valium.  My thought was that it would be great to get rid of both and just taper off the valium.  I have already tried to taper off ambien once and was not successful.  If I'm going to cross over to valium for the Ativan.......it made sense to just add 5 mg and include the ambien. 

Even though ambien isn't a benzo.......it affects the gaba receptors like the benzos.  Dr. Ashton actually has a schedule showing a cross over from a sleeping med to valium. 

Because I'm already suffering benzo fatigue and the effects of my last taper attempt off Ativan.....I didn't feel like I was in a good position to try and taper ambien again and go sleepless for weeks as I did before.  I do know that people taper off ambien without substitution........but I intend to c/o to valium because of the ativan anyway so thought what Dr. Peart has written in his schedule made sense.

If I was starting this from the beginning........at a healthier point.......I would definitely try to taper the ambien properly and then do the c/o to valium for ativan.

Right now......I'm just sinking into depression and hopelessness on a daily basis........know I'm in tolerance with Ativan and not getting much sleep with both drugs. 

You have both made good points........appreciate that. 

Cheryl

I'm sorry to hear that you're having such a rough time.  

You have been on ambien for 10 years correct? Ambien is not a benzo, however you are correct that it acts like one. But, it acts much, much, much more specifically on our receptors. It produces very little of the anti-anxiety/muscle relaxation typically seen with all benzo's. Instead, it has very strong hypnotic properties which are what puts you to sleep.

Benzo's all have different "profiles of action", though they are almost identical. But, as an example, valium has a much more pronounced hypnotic effect then klonopin. But, if you are shaking and trembling in the ER from a panic attack, chances are you'll be fed klonopin because of it's very strong effects against panic attacks and the muscle tremors that acompany them.

I am not a doctor, and I do not want you to consider this unless you feel comfortable: I would hold the ambien in place and gradually switch your dossage of ativan to valium. Once you are stabalized on the valium, and I mean STABALIZED, then I would gradually cut the ambien down over the course of 2, maybe 3 weeks at most. You may find that valiums very strong hypnotic effects slightly make up for the ambien. Once the ambien is gone, if your sleep is simply unbearable, the addition of medicines with strong anti-histamine properties could be used on an occasional basis, or every night for short term.

This is a suggestion. It is probably what I would do. I just simply cannot comprehend switching ambien for a benzo. However, also keep in mind that I was not on ambien for 10 years. I know it's really not what any of us want to hear, but we may have to go through very rough periods of sleep, ect. in order to heal our receptors.

Either way, whatever you chose to do, always keep a pro-active mindset; that eventually we want to get you back to your old self and managing to get some decent hours of shut eye without all these bad meds.

Hope your week is better, and please keep us updated and don't be afraid to ask me to clarify anything I just wrote, because I did write a lot.

Yorba,

I think your suggestion is a good one.  If I start with c/o from ativan to valium.........the valium will be in my system a while before reducing the ambien and that should make a difference.  Thanks for taking the time to reply again.  I will take a look at the c/o schedule for ativan to valium and go slow as per Ashton.

Cheryl

Yorba,

I'm going to do exactly what you suggested.......cross the ativan to valium and hold the ambien in place until that's finished.  I'm following Ashton's schedule of 5 weeks.......so will see how it goes.  I will deal with the ambien after stabilized on valium. 

Thanks again for your suggestion.

Cheryl