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Tanya's titration plan


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Hi Tanya

 

I've just found a bug. The absolute cut feature used to work, but I made some changes for another function, and it now interferes with the absolute cut feature. The default of 1 tablet still works though, so I've produced a table based upon that figure. It makes no difference to the details until you start to titrate the last tablet (a long way off, as you will see from the table). I will fix the formula sometime over the next few days.

 

However, I had failed to realise just how slow the titration rate would be by the 1 tablet stage anyway. Upon reflection, I don't think there is any need to change it from the default of 1 tablet; the formula seems seems to do a good job of automatically adjusting the taper rate without adjusting when the absolute cuts kick in. This is still a useful feature for those titrating with large dose tablets (it is needed to compensate for them not using the lowest available dose). Your titration rate is so very slow by that stage anyway, I really don't think there is any need to to make it even slower. You will see that the 3% every two weeks takes the plan into May 2010 as it is!

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/spreadsheets/titration-table-tanya-2007-09-29.html

 

It would be a good idea to add the above to your signature; you can do it by adding the following to your signature in your profile:

 

[url=http://www.benzobuddies.org/spreadsheets/titration-table-tanya-2007-09-29.html][b]My Titration Schedule[/b][/url]

 

It will look like this:

 

My Titration Schedule

 

Let me know your thoughts. I can alter the taper rate if the schedule appears too long.

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Hi Colin,

 

First of all - thank you so much for your work on this. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the fact that there you are, making an effort and figuring this out for me and everybody else.  Glad to 'know' you, believe me...

 

Anyway, it does look as a very long taper. I think I would start as 3% over 2 weeks to see how I am doing, 'cause the fear is biiiig. But I also don't want to drag this forever.  So, if I need to make changes I will be a pest again.

 

Colin, could the cumulative taper like this (a little bit every day) be harder on body then cut 3% and wait for 2 weeks? I know we are all different, but what are your thought on it?

 

If I put this schedule as my signature, people will freak out how long it is. Have to think about it  ;)

 

Thanks again.

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Hi,

 

The purpose of titration is allow you to make cuts so small that your body should hardly notice them. Of course, if the overall titration rate is too large, then you could still experience problems, but you do avoid the periodic shocks to the system associated with less frequent larger cuts. Many people who have struggled with their tapers have found titration a godsend. All my experience tells me that tapers that involve frequent small cuts are more successful than tapers that rely upon larger less frequent cuts. Jana, a former moderator on this forum, used to help people with individual titration plans. She was convinced that people would usually manage faster tapers by employing frequent small cuts. In her opinion was (and I tend agree) that by avoiding these sudden shocks to the system, people did not need time to recover from these shocks to their systems - their overall taper rate would increase! I think that cuts of three percent carried out once every 14 days is a very slow rate, but using my previous logic, you might well be able to increase the overall rate, with no ill-effects, by using titration and the 100ml cylinder. By all means, start out cautiously - you can increase the taper rate later when you feel more confident.

 

I encourage all members to place their taper details in their signature; it makes it much easier for others to understand our position.

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Thanks Colin, that was reassuring to hear. Hopefully I will be able to do this and go little faster sometimes. If not, I will still be on the right path, even though it may be very long.

 

 

 

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Well...not to be the odd one out, but my body actually preferred the cut-and-recover method. When I was about two-thirds through my taper, I tried doing the liquid titration, and I didn't care for it. I ended up going back to the cut-and-recover way. I think it's a personal preference. With titration, you experience a smaller amount of discomfort every day, whereas with regular cutting, you experience lots of discomfort immediately after you cut and then have some "nice" days (if you want to call it that) at the end of the cutting period, right before you cut again. I didn't go back to titration until I was really near the end of my taper--I wanted to just glide off.

 

Therese

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Well...not to be the odd one out, but my body actually preferred the cut-and-recover method. When I was about two-thirds through my taper, I tried doing the liquid titration, and I didn't care for it. I ended up going back to the cut-and-recover way. I think it's a personal preference. With titration, you experience a smaller amount of discomfort every day, whereas with regular cutting, you experience lots of discomfort immediately after you cut and then have some "nice" days (if you want to call it that) at the end of the cutting period, right before you cut again. I didn't go back to titration until I was really near the end of my taper--I wanted to just glide off.

 

Therese

 

Therese,

 

At what dose did you start the liquid Valium?(Titration)  I was very comfortable with the cut and recover method too.  But things just got too hard for me around 2.0mg that's why I have decided to go ahead and use partly liquid now.   It did go well for me last night.  I am down to 1.46mg now and will make another .04ml cut tonight.  Would you consider this a good point in my taper to start the titration?  Another question, If I start to find .04ml is too much for me, do I hold till I feel better and cut again, but at say .03ml instead?

 

Also, is it true that I won't have any "good" days anymore because I'm now cutting every day?

 

Thanks!

 

Sandy :)

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Therese, thanks for your input. Now I am at a loss what to do.... As much as I am worried about the shocks to the system, I can't imagine not having any good days... I was afraid someone will say that.

 

However, I don't know how to go slow by cutting the pills (use old titration method?). When I tried w/ .125 mg wafer, I was told not to split it. The whole 0.125mg cut is about 8% and I think it's too much for me.

How did other people cut small amounts from their 0.5mg tablets?

 

And if I start the new method and then can't continue that way, will I be able to tell where in dosage I am?

 

Tanya

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Hi Tanya,

 

If you are super-sensitive to cuts in your dosage, then titration is the way to go. It will allow you to make very small cuts. The table I produced for you represents a 3% fall in dosage every 14 days. The table gives you daily (or near daily) cuts that add up to 3% over 14 days. If you really do not want to make daily cuts, simply look down the table to 14 days after the start date, and use the titration figure given there - you will be making a 3% cut all in one go. You would then look down the table for the figures for another 14 days later, and that will be your next cut.

 

I cannot rewrite the table formula to do this all for you, but it is pretty straight forward. If you would like the table to start off with the first cut to coincide with your proposed start date, I can redo your table - I'll just give it a start date for 14 days early. This way, the titrated dose that falls on your proposed start date will already be a 3% cut. This will keep all your future dates lined up correctly.

 

I'll post up the alternative table (with altered start date) a little later. It will be much easier for you to understand what I mean when you can see it.

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Hi Tanya,

 

Here's the new table. I could have simply edited out the dates before the start date, but I've left them in place and greyed out so that you can see more easily what I have done.

 

You might notice that I've started the table only 13 days before your proposed start date. This is because the table always starts in by one day anyway. If this were not the case, the first day on the table would display your dose before you start the taper (three whole tablets in your case), rather then the figures for the very first cut.

 

If a future date is not available for you next cut (because your taper is so gentle, you do not make cuts every day), then just use the figure that is nearest, or wait till the new date specified by the table.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/spreadsheets/bbo-tanya-2007-09-29-v2.html

 

And the code for your signature (you may alter the displayed text 'My Titration Schedule' if so desired):

 

[url=http://www.benzobuddies.org/spreadsheets/bbo-tanya-2007-09-29-v2.html ]My Titration Schedule[/url]

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Colin,

If I understand this correctly, in the new schedule I would start on 09/29 with 3% cut and then immediately continue w/cumulative, gradual taper. No time to "breathe"?  ???

 

I think I will try the original plan and if it's too difficult I will, then, every 14 days drink the amount specified for that day. Am I making sense to you? 

 

Thanks again Colin.

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Hi Tanya,

 

No, that's not it. The new titration plan does start with a 3% cut (as you have indicated that is how you wish to procede), but you then ignore the daily (or near daily) cuts for the next 14 days. Your second cut would be on 13th Oct. - you would then start taking 82ml of the liquid. Another 14 days would take you to the 27th - there is no change in dose listed for that date, so instead just wait until the next day, the 28th, and reduce your dose to 73ml. Of course, you would, during all this time, take the two whole tablets as indicated by the third column.

 

29th Sept. 91ml

13th Oct. 82ml

28th Oct. 73ml

11th Nov. 65ml

25th Nov. 57ml

 

And so on. ;)

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I guess the confusion was because the first part was shaded and the rest was not. Boy, I want you to do everything, don't I ?  ;D

Anyway, again, I'll start (almost) daily taper and go from there. I always have the option to do cut and wait.

Thanks again Colin. I'm sure you'll hear from me again.

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Hi Tanya,

 

The beauty of the new titration schedule is that if you cut every day, or cut every 14 days, (or anything in between), so long as you follow the figures on the specified dates, your overall taper rate is exactly the same. You can switch between the daily (or near daily cuts) and 14 day cuts, and the schedule still works. ;)

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Therese, thanks for your input. Now I am at a loss what to do.... As much as I am worried about the shocks to the system, I can't imagine not having any good days... I was afraid someone will say that.

 

If you want a good day, you just hold your taper for a few days...that's usually enough time for your body to adjust. But it definitely feels different--at least for me. But some people really like it.

 

However, I don't know how to go slow by cutting the pills (use old titration method?). When I tried w/ .125 mg wafer, I was told not to split it. The whole 0.125mg cut is about 8% and I think it's too much for me.

How did other people cut small amounts from their 0.5mg tablets?

 

If the whole .125 mg cut is too much (it was for me too), I would say your best options are to make a liquid solution from the Klon or else to switch to Valium, which comes in smaller-dose tabs. If you make the liquid Klon, you don't have to cut every day. You could use the liquid to make smaller cuts every two weeks or so, like the "old" method. You could just dissolve a .5 mg tablet in 100ml of milk and then cut whatever amount you like, then hold that for two weeks.

 

And if I start the new method and then can't continue that way, will I be able to tell where in dosage I am?

 

That can be figured out pretty easily if we know all the details of your last dose. I wouldn't be too concerned about it. :)

 

Therese

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Thanks Therese. Even though I haven't been feeling that great, I think I need to start. Otherwise, who knows if I'll ever feel ready. I know that my hormones are little off too, probably because of the perimenopause. OK, so this is going to be a double whamee  ???

I will need support during the taper, since I have nobody, except my 2 kids, in this country.  :( I know how good you all are here.... Thanks.

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Well I read your plan Tanya and it sounds great.  I'm posting so I don't lose the thread... and to wish you the finest.  I'll be here.. probably leaning on you.. haha. 
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  • 5 weeks later...

Hi Tanya,

 

How's your titration plan going? It is very slow withdrawal you are planning. If, after a while you feel fine, and have greater confidence, let me know if you like me to put together a schedule that gets you off a little quicker.

 

Take care.

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Hi Colin,

 

Thanks for your PM about the formula. As you know, I am going rather slowly (did someone on the forum called this slow taper "stupid"?  ;)) It's been little over a month and I was pretty OK; still suffering from the same w/d symptoms of tolerance. Today, though, I had a complete emotional meltdown, in addition to having the gastro problems resurge. I am hoping that it is mainly due to my before-period hormonal changes... the next few days will tell. Last night I watched "Nova" on a group of very different people, but all sedantery and unfit, preparing for Boston Marathon. It took them 9 months of preparation and you learned some of their life stories (not all happy!). Well, at the end, when they showed most of them cross the finish line, I was sobbing and sobbing.  Uncontrollably. It also made me think of us here, struggling so much  in order to cross that line...

 

Every night I prepare my little bottle of milk suspension (my "baby bottle") that I drink first thing in am. For anyone who's worried about titrating, I'd like to reassure them that there is nothing to it. Colin provides the sheet with the amount for each day, so all you need to do it is follow it. If it says 79 ml for Oct. 31, well it's 79 ml out of 100 ml you prepare, that you drink. The only 'problem' is if you have a benzo brain like I do - I run to the bedroom, where I keep the sheet, several times within a couple of minutes, to make sure I remembered the amount correctly!  :wacko:

 

Hang in there everybody...

 

Tanya

 

 

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Hi Colin,

 

Thanks for your PM about the formula. As you know, I am going rather slowly (did someone on the forum called this slow taper "stupid"?  ;))

 

Was that me!? :o:-[

 

It's been little over a month and I was pretty OK; still suffering from the same w/d symptoms of tolerance. Today, though, I had a complete emotional meltdown, in addition to having the gastro problems resurge. I am hoping that it is mainly due to my before-period hormonal changes... the next few days will tell.

 

Your taper rate is so slow, I'm sure you have felt the same even if you weren't tapering at all. It probably is due to other things. If you are not feeling good, it is not the time to increase your rate anyway. If you do increase it, do when you feel more confident. I will say, however, I'd be very surprised if you could not increase the rate and feel no worse. At the same time, I accept that, for a few, they absolutely must taper very slowly to feel relatively OK.

 

Last night I watched "Nova" on a group of very different people, but all sedantery and unfit, preparing for Boston Marathon. It took them 9 months of preparation and you learned some of their life stories (not all happy!). Well, at the end, when they showed most of them cross the finish line, I was sobbing and sobbing.  Uncontrollably. It also made me think of us here, struggling so much  in order to cross that line...

 

I have no idea of what Nova is, but so many people report being able to tackle things far better after their benzo withdrawal than they ever could in the past.

 

Every night I prepare my little bottle of milk suspension (my "baby bottle") that I drink first thing in am. For anyone who's worried about titrating, I'd like to reassure them that there is nothing to it. Colin provides the sheet with the amount for each day, so all you need to do it is follow it. If it says 79 ml for Oct. 31, well it's 79 ml out of 100 ml you prepare, that you drink. The only 'problem' is if you have a benzo brain like I do - I run to the bedroom, where I keep the sheet, several times within a couple of minutes, to make sure I remembered the amount correctly!  :wacko:

 

You titrate one of the pills, make the reduction, then add the other pills to the mix (or take the other pills separately), right?

 

Hang in there everybody...

 

Tanya

 

Take care.

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  • 2 months later...

Hi Tanya,

 

I was wondering how titration taper is going? You are following a very slow taper and I wondered if things are going well, and if you would like to try speeding it up a little. It's just that you have more than two more years to go at this rate. Getting off is the important thing, but I don't want to see you drawring this out for longer than you need to.

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