Jump to content

How long does it take for benzos to leave your system?


[Co...]

Recommended Posts

This was originally posted as a reply to this thread: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=5660.0


 

Strictly, it will not be earlier doses that are processed, but just a proportion of the amount of drug you have in your system. It just depends on the particular molecule coming into contact with your metabolic processes. So, it is all chance, and probability. But since there are huge numbers of these drug molecules floating around our system, we can predict how much (a proportion) of the drug is metabolised over a period of time. The only problem is that it varies from person-to-person. The usual way to describe this is how long it takes for half of the drug to be metabolised (assuming that you have stopped taking additional doses), we can work out the amount fairly simply. This will be expressed as a range because of our individual differences. So, Valium will take between 36-200 hours for half of it to be metabolised. Of what's remaining, half of that will be metabolised after a further 36-200 hours. So, you will have a quarter left in your system after 72-400 hours. The maths is as follows:

 

Since we cannot know our individual rates of metabolisation, we will have to instead calculate a range of possibilities. In the case of Valium, that's 36-200 hours. To calculate how much is left in our system, say, after 6 days:

 

144 hours in 6 days, divide by 36 hours, equals 4. (144/36=4). - This is our power.

 

Half-life (0.5) to the power of 4, equals 0.0625 (as a decimal). Multiply this by 100 to express it as a percentage, equals 6.25%. This is how much is left in our bodies after six days, assuming that we metabolise Valium at a half-life rate of 36 hours.

 

Now, if we instead assume that we metabolise Valium at half-life rate of 200 hours, then: 144 hours in six days, divide by 200 hours (144/200=0.72). This is our power!

 

Half-life (0.5) to the power of 0.72, equals 0.607 (as a decimal) Again, we multiply by 100 to gain a percentage figure, equals 60.7%.

 

So, you see, even after just six days, the range of possible blood levels is very large, and the gap grows even larger with more time.

 

Again (more succinctly):

 

6 days; half-life 36-200 hours

 

6x24=144 hours

 

144/36=4 (for a half-life of 36 hours)

 

0.54=0.0625

 

= 6.25%

 

144/200=0.72 (for a half-life of 200 hours)

 

0.50.72=0.607

 

= 60.7%

 

Range = 6.25 to 60.7%.

 


 

Another example:

 

Clonazepam; 2 days and 6 hours; half-life 18-50 hours

 

(2x24)+6=54 hours

 

54/18=3 (for a half-life of 18 hours)

 

0.53=0.125

 

= 12.5%

 

54/50=1.08 (for a half-life of 50 hours)

 

0.51.08=0.473

 

= 47.3%

 

Range after 54 hours: 12.5 to 47.3%

 

 

So, we can calculate possible ranges, but I don't think it really tells us anything, apart from our individual metabolic rates has huge effects upon our meds. Because of this variability, two people on the same benzo, at the same dose, can expect to have very different blood levels, even when not withdrawing!

 

As a matter of interest, the possible range for Valium left in our system after 30 days is: 0.000095% (that must be undetectable) to 8.25% (that must be easily detectable). This difference is enormous. Knowing this probably doesn't help any of us though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Replies 288
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • [Co...]

    35

  • [fi...]

    14

  • [si...]

    11

  • [Su...]

    7

Top Posters In This Topic

adivan doesn't stay in your system as long - so when i'm done will i have less withdrawal?  i have a slow metabolism.

 

also was thinking of doing a liver detox in a few weeks - i have to dedicate a month to it - would detoxing my liver help.

 

i read on a previous post for rufus that broccoli is not a good thing to eat - i just ate a bunch before bedtime - and was up all night - i may have shorted my dose accidentally to.

 

so what are good veggies - cause i wanted to eat veggies before bed.

 

i would like to slit my way out of this addiction with pills - but it may not be possible - ok i am rambling now.

 

but since adivan has a shorter life to it i am looking for something to hang on to in my withdrawals - does it help it is so short how can i make that work to my advantage?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A short half-life is not a good thing with benzo withdrawal. What we are trying to do is taper gradually, but if the benzo is metabolised quickly, blood levels tend to dip radically between doses. For this reason we would usually recommend that short acting benzos are taken several times a day. The reason I posted the above is so that people can gain some idea of how long benzos remain in the blood after their last dose. The subject does come up from time-to-time, so I worked out the formula. It may not be exact as I don't know, for example, if there tends to be a shift in the rate we can metabolise benzos according our dosage. If this happens to be the case (I have no idea about this, it is purely an example), then it would mean that the half-life would change over time, and that would alter the results. However, since the above formula describes extremes, those extremes should still be accurate, just highly unlikely if there are other factors that come into play. I'm overly complicating the issue with this reply - I just wanted to get across that the above is only to demonstrate how benzo levels drop over time. It is impossible for us to know how long it would take an individual's levels to drop to undetectable levels as we would need to know their actual blood levels and how fast they metabolise their benzo.

 

Anyway, to better answer your question, a fast acting benzo means a sharp withdrawal if we were to suddenly stop our benzos. It is sometimes said that Valium (and other long-acting benzos) have a natural in-built taper to them, but in reality it is still far too sharp to be of use in of itself. Valium offers a unique combination of being long-acting and low potency. This means a smooth taper and more easily managed cuts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...
[9f...]
I've decided to move into this topic for the rapid taper that I am doing.  I was at 30mg on Friday, 20mg on Saturday and then only 10mg of Valium on Sunday.  Today, returning to work, I felt dull and fatigued (which I have felt in the past when lowering a daily dosage), so I had to climb back up to 20mg of Valium to feel "normal".  I plan on going back to 10mg tomorrow for 2 days and then 5mg for another 2-3 days, then cold turkey after that.  This should work for me, but I wouldn't suggest this for anyone.  I figure that the symptoms will hit around Friday, so I've got at least 2 days to writhe in bed and drink gallons of water over the weekend.  Hopefully, I'll find some activities on the weekend to ease the bizarre after effects and Monday will be more energetic for me.  I know that Colin would like us all to follow a more structured and lengthy taper, but I can't do it.  It is all or nothing for me.  It is much too easy to get some sort of benzo for sleep as my doctor knows my long struggle with insomnia.  All I have to do is pick up the phone and call the pharmacy and they'll call doc and the prescription will be ready.  When I reach that point, and don't make that call and I can still type here honestly with no bullcrap, then I will be on my way.  Until then, this is only a nice story.  :sneaky:    :angel:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ampersand,

 

Wouldn't drinking tons of water flush the benzos out of your system and cause more withdrawal symptoms than by simply letting time pass and have the benzos slowly decrease in your system?  I don't agree with the way you are doing it, but if you are doing it the way you are, I just thought that it might be easier on you if you dump the water.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ampersand,

 

Wouldn't drinking tons of water flush the benzos out of your system and cause more withdrawal symptoms than by simply letting time pass and have the benzos slowly decrease in your system?  I don't agree with the way you are doing it, but if you are doing it the way you are, I just thought that it might be easier on you if you dump the water.

 

I'm unsure of what effect drinking a lot of water when taking the benzo and for an hour or two afterwards would have absorption rates (if any), but water, in of itself, will not, as far as I know, have any affect on metabolisation of the drug. Benzos are not 'flushed' from your system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[9f...]
The drinking of water should help "flush" some of the more gross elements of the medications.  I know it goes much deeper than this, at a cellular level most likely, but at least it'll take my mind off of what is happening if I have to go to the bathroom every 15 minutes.  8)  By next Monday, I'll type exactly what is happening without holding back any info.  I really can't go slower than what I am doing now.  I know myself too well and if I get another bottle of 10mg Valiums, I'll just resume the 30mg per day eventually because it is too easy.  Thanks for your suggestions and concerns.  Keep 'em comin'... they make me "think" more about whether or not my efforts are working or not.  :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[9f...]

IMO, you are tapering way too fast and risking a melt down. :o  Let us know how you make out. Sandy

 

Thanks for your concern Sandy.  Funny though, the meltdown actually came in the middle of taking Xanax on a regular basis (only for about a month) and the Valium seems like aspirin in comparison.  If I start getting seized-up muscles in my neck, I'll know that I'm in the middle of something, but I've been through it before and I watch what is happening very closely.  Did you ever notice that when you were tapering down or off the benzos altogether that you react differently to all sorts of situations, voices sound different, major things feel major, minor things feel major  (over-sensitive), your choice of words in any conversation take on a different approach... more like living in the here and now almost.  ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ampersand,

 

I'll agree that valium seems like aspirin in comparison to xanex.  The whole time I've been tapering from the valium, it seems like I am just taking aspirin in that it doesn't seem to have any effect on the anxiety (although I'm sure it is better than nothing). 

 

Colin,

 

I know that drinking tons of water washes out most meds from your system faster (how fast I don't know); why wouldn't tons of water at least shorten the half life of benzos?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Summer,

 

Where did you get this information about water flushing meds out of your system faster?  I never heard of such a thing.

 

Sandy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sandy,

 

Many, many years ago I knew a woman who was addicted to cocaine.  She was applying for a job and had to take a drug test.  She had heard that if she drank gallons of water, it would dilute the cocaine in her system and/or flush it out.  Anyway, it worked for her, she got the job, found out she was pregnant, quit the cocaine and lived happily ever after.  Her daughter is a mother now.

 

That's about the only time I heard of it, but it made a little sense at the time.  I just thought that if it did that for an illegal drug, it might work the same way for any type of drug. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Benzos are metabolised through the liver. I have no idea if a lot of water would have any effect upon liver function, but if it does, I imagine it would be marginal.

 

You were correct in your assertion that increasing the rate at which benzos leaves the body is at odds with a sensible withdrawal. Healthy living can only help our efforts with withdrawal, so sensible amounts of liquid can only be good thing. At the same time, it is actually possible to overdose on water! You can overdose on anything!!!

 

I have no idea of how cocaine is eliminated from the body (I suspect your friend's claim to be totally erroneous though), but it has no relationship with benzos, so pay no attention.

 

My experience (not all personal) is that a good diet, drinking sensible amounts of water, and any exercise that dose not add to your symptoms, is the way to go. I would strongly suggest that no alcohol is consumed until full recovery is achieved. Supplements and vitamins should be approached cautiously. Any drug that also acts upon the BAGA system should be avoided if possible, but if they are necessary, they should be taken. Coffee is also regularly reported as causing problems (probably all caffeine sources). A one off dose of a benzo (as a pre-med, for example) should not cause undue alarm - just about all the feedback we've received suggests no harm, negligible harm, or no lasting harm to the withdrawal process.

 

I am not trying to make hard-and-fast rules, but the above is from my personal experience, or from what I have learned from the experiences of other members of this forum.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Colin,

 

Thanks for pointing that out to me (Sandy too).  I was really concerned that too much water would eliminate the benzos too fast.  I admittedly have no idea on how any meds work with the liver.  I agree a healthy diet and healthy amounts of liquids is the best way to go. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[9f...]
Okay... so last night... I was so irritated about watching the last Valiums that I had in the bottle... four of them... counting the pills and the days... I just said "F**k it!" and took the last 4 10mg tablets yesterday evening.  Some of you may be horrified at that level of intake, but it was really not much of anything for me.  I had a good night's sleep and am now facing my first night without 10-20mgs of Valium.  I am okay with it so far.  I would imagine that the next few days might be interesting... and sometimes I  think the fear of not having the pills to fall back on is sometimes worse than the other actual physical/emotional effects.  So, I am done for now and I will post anything that I think is really horrific, but I am keeping a positive attitude in the face of some withdrawal symptoms that may arise.  I could not see myself taking tiny slivers of Valium and worrying about feeling bad if I did not.  This is my approach and as I have stated before, I am going to see this through even though some painful effects may rear their ugly heads.  This method is not for everyone with a benzo problem.  Cheers!  8)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Ampersand,

 

I have to say, you are not following any method at all. Don't you see, the fact that you felt compelled to take all four pills indicates that you have real dependency issues? What about tonight, and the next night? A sensible withdrawal taper is not about feeling great; it is about managing your taper in such a way that the withdrawal symptoms are manageable. At some stage, you will understand this, but it really is better to learn this sooner rather than later. Many people report never being able to reach a stable level after a cold turkey or very rapid withdrawals. It really is in your interest to gain control now.

 

I really do wish you luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hey

I get it your going to do it your own way. Let me try one more time to make a point, benzos are WIERD, what seems like a typical psychological need, is chemically induced ,its really a physical need, and self controll issues are not the same as other addictive drugs.

Good Luck

Bob

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[9f...]

Correct Colin... there is no method at all now.  Just waiting it out.  Yes, I have a real dependency issue.  I suppose that taking all four pills (40mgs Valium over a 6 hour period) isn't a good thing, but I knew my tolerance level is very high.  Cold turkey is the only way I can do it because when the pills are at hand, the dosage continues at 30-40mgs per day.  Tuesday night was the 40mg night... now it is Thursday morning, nearly noon.  Issues noticed so far: some weakness in my shoulders and neck... some fatigue... some skin crawling sensations... slight throat constriction... some mental confusion at work (concepts are not sinking in)... some "whooshing" sensations when I stand up (like blood rushing to the upper part of the body and head that comes in waves)... some ringing in the ears that comes and goes... a strange feeling of being "unclean" all over even though my clothes are clean and I am bathing every day.  I am feeling no major distress, so please don't be too concerned.  ;)

 

I read somewhere that in a study of benzos, using rabbits as test subjects, that it took 5,000mgs of benzos to actually kill the rabbit.  Poor rabbit.  :(

 

Otherwise, I am fine and feeling more in the moment, physically and mentally.  :thumbsup:

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Amp[ersand,

 

I am worried about your cold turkey.  If you are so dependent that you have to take all the pills you have, can you possibly get someone who could dole out a tapered dose for you.  It might take 5,000 mg to kill a rat, but I'm concerned about possible seizures of going cold turkey (not so much the amount of pills you took).

 

Besides, you are not a rat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[9f...]
I am actually good with the cold turkey.  This all started with insomnia and I knew that when I started taking the Restoril 7 years ago that it may have been a mistake.  I went with it and finally became a benzo junky in the end.  I don't sense that a seizure is in my near future from the sudden withdrawal.  Sleep is an issue though and I continue to take an over-the-counter Advil PM for that.  I sometimes wish that I had tried some of that PM stuff in the early days of insomnia, but I opted for a "doctor's" treatment.  Today was a major fatigue day after stopping the benzos.  No energy, no hope, no care about what may happen next... might be labeled as "depression".  Since I know that the depression is caused by withdrawal, I can deal with it.  Otherwise, I am still okay for the most part.  I wonder what my cells are thinking?  :laugh:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[9f...]

The only thing that is really bothering me is extreme fatigue.  Doesn't matter what I do (sleep 7-8 hours or drink coffee) I am unable to feel much energy at all... hard to sit up straight at work.  I've noticed my joints creaking and popping a lot too (Valium is a skeletal relaxant) and now that the relaxant has been taken away, I sound like a bag of bones!  I think that the last time I did a withdrawal (about 2.5 years ago) my liver was saturated with benzos & benzo-related garbage because I took a lot of pills around the clock for about 4 years and there were a lot of problems stemming from that.  This time I think my intake was much lower and I have done a couple of liver cleansings in the past year.  If I hadn't, I might be on the floor right now, but I'm not.

 

Moving into the 72-hour range since I took the last 10mg Valium.    ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ampersand,

 

Good luck with your cold turkey.  Really hope it works out well for you and that you come out of it unscathed.  Worried a lot about you though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[9f...]

Hello Summer123,

 

I'm at the 144-hour range since I stopped the Valium.  I did succumb to what seemed like an intestinal virus & fever for a couple of days, but I am feeling much better now.  After 2 days of ingesting nothing but water, I am starting to eat again.  I had to skip work for a day, but I may be able to go back tomorrow.  I don't think that this ailment is related to stopping the Valium intake.  Sleep is okay with the Advil PM for now.

 

Thanks much for your concern.  It means a lot.  :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...