Need advice about daily micro taper of liquid Valium suspension

Hi there,

I’m on a liquid Valium suspension that’s mixed in ethanol. 1 drop = 0.33 mg Valium. I am at 3.33 mg Valium per day. When I decrease by one drop I get hit pretty hard with symptoms.

 

I was wondering if I could mix the one drop in 100ml of water and do a ten day micro taper followed by a ten day hold for example. Taking out 10 ml on day one, 20 ml on day two, 30 ml on day three, etc. Is this the way a daily liquid taper is done? It does seem a laborious method but I’m hoping it might ease the huge punch in the gut (on day 3, 5, 9 or sometimes random days)that I receive when I cut one drop at a time.

I would put the drop in the water at each dose, not do it ahead of time. Then I would mix it very well (stir it perhaps unless I must get a jar with lid to shake instead depending on advice) and extract the given amount immediately, throw it away and drink the remainder, thus reducing each day by an extra 10 ml.

I read something here about how Valium does not mix well in water but my Valium is already mixed in ethanol, it comes that way from the pharmacy. If I mix the drop well with the water would it be safe to say that when I extract the amount of water valium mixture with a syringe that I will be getting a correct decrease? Would the precipitation of the Valium ethanol solution in the water be homogeneous enough to give accurate decreases? Again, I will take the mixture immediately after mixing and not hold it at all.

I want to avoid uneven decreases or worse increases if the liquid Valium ethanol solution is not evenly mixed with the water.

I would very much appreciate any advice please.

Thank you.

Hello Benzofree2023.

 

You are correct that diazepam is practically insoluble in water. 

 

It sounds like you are using the commercially manufactured, concentrated 10mg/1mL oral diazepam solution that is available in some countries.

 

If so, we had member a while back who, like you, wished to dilute this liquid so she could achieve lower doses than those allowed by the dropper supplied with the medicine.  She and another member (who worked as a drug formulation specialist) conducted extensive research on how to do this.  Her conclusion was the best co-solvent to use in terms of solubility, tolerability, safety, manipulation and cost was homogenized, whole-fat milk

 

Here’s a link to the post where she summarized her findings:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=267260.msg3372864#msg3372864

Thank you for all this information. I do not tolerate milk, though. I’m not sure I understand why mixing with water if it’s shaken well would not have the Valium equally distributed throughout the water if I immediately take out 10 ml and then immediately drink the rest. I take the Valium in water already. It creates a slight cloud that completely disappears if stirred. Does this mean there is less Valium in the water? I’m sorry I’m not at all scientifically inclined.

You’re welcome.

 

As noted in the post cited upthread, the risk of diluting a highly concentrated oral diazepam solution with water is that doing so may cause some of the diazepam to precipitate out of solution as solid particles. These particles may or may not be visible to the naked eye.

 

If precipitation does occur after water is added, the resulting liquid becomes a suspension not a solution.  With suspensions, there is no guarantee that each and every milliliter of the liquid contains exactly the same amount of drug (in other words, both dosing accuracy and precision are affected).  This is particularly true of water-based suspensions because water is a poor suspending vehicle (i.e. solid particles suspended in water settle out very quickly).

 

Let me hasten to add, we do have members who have diluted a less concentrated, commercially manufactured 1mg/1mL oral diazepam solution with water and used the resulting do-it-yourself (DIY) liquid successfully to taper.  I personally am not aware of members who have done this with the highly concentrated liquid you are using.  (It may well work well enough to meet your needs, but I would encourage you to regard the resulting DIY liquid as a suspension not a solution and take appropriate precautions.)

Thank you so much. I understand better now. Though I’m not sure I have much of a choice since I’ve found decreasing 1 drop 0.33 mg and holding is pretty hard. I have looked at the DIY videos with pills (dissolving in vodka then mixing with water) and they seem less accurate than what I would propose to do. I will ask the pharmacist if the diazepam comes in 1 ml = 1 mg but I don’t think they sell it that way here in France. Thank you again for everything.

One more question. I’m sorry. What do you mean by « take appropriate precautions »?

I agree with you — the approach you are considering is likely more accurate and precise than the ‘dissolve’ a tablet in vodka then add water approach (e.g. we do not know if all of the diazepam in the tablet does indeed go into solution when a small amount of off-the-shelf vodka is added to it; even if some of the diazepam does indeed go into solution, we do not know if it stays in solution when more water is added).

 

You may be able to find out if a lower concentration liquid is available yourself.  What agency in France regulates drugs?  Is it ANSM - agence nationale de sécurité du médicament et des produits de santé?  If so, does ANSM’s website have a searchable, online database of drugs that have been approved and are available for human use?

 

Two of the top precautions for using suspensions are (1) shake the liquid well before use and (2) measure the target dose or reduction as quickly as possible.

 

 

 

You’re amazing! So knowledgeable ! I will look into the agency and will take precautions if another solution doesn’t exist. Thank you for your patience and kindness!

You’re most welcome.  If you discover the agency does indeed have a searchable, online database, I’d appreciate it if you would share the web address here so we can refer future members to it if needed.

I found this. You can search for drug availability.

 

https://ansm.sante.fr/disponibilites-des-produits-de-sante/medicaments

 

Apparently only my solution of Valium exists in France

Thank you!

I'm about to start microtapering liquid DZ and now I'm very confused about the water issue, suspension versus solution.

 

The more I read the more confused I get.