Convincing my wife on her taper amount

[[Buddie]]

Hello everyone!

I need some advice on how to carry on with my wife's taper and whether we should taper her down 5% or 3% as my wife keeps saying.  A few days ago my wife said she wanted to begin the next cut today on Thursday, so I spoke to her about this last night and told her how does she feel, does she want to go 5,6,7,8,9, or 10% cut. She was scared and told me to go 5%. I said ok.  This morning I created two of the pills which would be the 5% cut and she freaked out and told me only 3%, which I told her didn't make sense.

My wife seems to be scared of tapering now when I speak to her for a few reasons. 

• She seems afraid to know what is on the other side of the pill (ie will she have a prolongued withdrawal or not, I keep telling her we cant estimate that, but that she's doing all the right things to not have a prolongued withdrawal and that given her age, the small dose of klonopin she was taking, the fact that she isn't polydrugged, and the slower tapering strategy should help mitigate any risk of a prolongued withdrawal.  I could be wrong, but that is what I feel.
• She tells me she is afraid about tapering at 5% despite me telling her that the direct simple taper strategy suggests you should and could taper 5-10% every 2-4 weeks depending on symptoms (and as you see below, she seems ok).
• She isn't great with math and I keep trying to explain to her that the 5% is off of the small piece she is on (0.2275mg) not a cut from the original dose of 0.5mg.... and that because of this, it is smaller than she thinks in her head

How has she handled the 0.2275mg taper?
So my wife just went 15 days at 0.2275 mg of clonazepam. This was during a heavy menstration cycle which further affected her symptoms and strength. She's now on the other side of the menstration cycle. The 15 days she's been at this dose included 4 days where she rated her discomfort/symptoms a 3.5/10, the other days were a 3 or 2.5.  Additionally, she told me she slept at least 6 hours each of those days except for 3 of them where she slept on/off for 4 hours. She is able to drive, she made a chicken soup, we attended church and we're even taking trips to grocery shop and to walmart. 

So to me, she doesn't seem great, but she seems stabilized and ready for the next step.  I feel like everyone going through this withdrawal doesn't really have a day that is similar to how they felt pre benzo and that her somewhat stable days on 0.2275mg should be a sign to carry on to the next 5% drop.  I also feel like it is good for her psychologically because she absolutely hates this pill and is terrified by it. 

I don't want to push her though and I'm hoping you all can either help me confirm my belief that she should carry on with a 5% reduction, or should I take heed of what seems like an irrational benzo-driven fear of reducing.  I am obviously an outsider because I haven't gone through this so hoping you can give me some guidance on what to do during these roadblocks.  thanks!

[[Buddie]]

Hi [...],

I'm not really tapering yet myself as I'm still trying to stabilize on 0,3 mg after the huge drop so I have no personal experience yet, but I think it's important that your wife is the one calling the shots on when to reduce and how much. If she's scared and uncomfortable with 5% and is willing to try 3% instead, personally I would let her do so. I think it might even be able to give her confidence. Like you could agree to try only a 3% cut and be extra careful and if that one feels okay, she could be more willing to try 5% next cut?

I'm scared myself. I never felt good on the benzo, I got cut by 40% so obviously I haven't felt good these past months either, I'm seemingly getting to a more stable place though finally and I think I'd also feel more comfortable with a tiny tiny cut as the first one next to test the waters. If that one would go okay I would then perhaps try a bit more as I hate my liquid too and feel like I'm poisoning myself every evening. So I understand her struggle of wanting off but also how big the impact can be of a cut.

My parents agreed to have me do it my way completely. My dad thinks I'm a wacko for wanting to go down eventually in such small amounts titrating the liquid more than what the pharmacy is compounding but he'll support me because that's what I'm comfortable with. Her comfort and confidence is key here.

[[Buddie]]

I agree with you that it sounds like your wife has stabilized.  So, I hope you two have taken a moment to celebrate this excellent news.

I agree with [...] that the reduction amount should be your wife’s call.  If she feels comfortable with 3%, then so be it.  Do you have a sense of what her withdrawal pattern is?  That is, about how many days does it take for her symptoms to stabilize (i.e. stop changing in nature and number and become tolerable) after a reduction?  She may be able to make smaller % reductions at more frequent intervals than 2-4 weeks.

You’ve indicated she isn’t great at math but I wonder if showing her the actual amount of the reduction in writing (i.e. 0.0068mg for a 3% reduction) might help allay her concerns? 

[[Buddie]]

Thank you. She seems to stabilize after 5 days. Do I could maybe do a 3% taper every 5-7 days but I just don’t know how hard that is and I get concerned that a microtaper would bubble up into a harder withdrawal after a certain period of time.

Would a 3% reduction feel the same as a 5% reduction or would it be that much easier?  That is the one unknown I have. I feel like 3% would feel like 5%. And the fact that she initially told me 5% and I agreed with that then today she tells me to do 3% just makes me concerned that it is really more psychological for her and that she’s not thinking as clearly what j this benzo.

[[Buddie]]

Hmmm …five days for stabilization is quite fast for clonazepam … many members report it takes 10-12 days (which makes sense given clonazepam’s half-life).  But let’s not get ahead of ourselves.

It seems to me the first step is to help your wife make a reduction, even if it’s a small one.  It doesn’t really matter if her reluctance to make a 5% reduction is due to benzo-driven fear or unclear thinking. It’s ‘where her head is’ at this given point in time and trying to convince her otherwise could be counter-productive.  Instead, I suggest you start with the reduction she is comfortable with (3%) and she how she does.  This will also give you the opportunity to collect more data re: her withdrawal pattern.

As the saying goes, ‘Nothing succeeds like success.’  If she does ok with a 3% reduction, chances are she will be more open to discussing other options (e.g. a larger percent reduction, smaller but more frequent reductions).

[[Buddie]]

I looked at the tapering log and it seems like her last truly bad day was day 7, not 5 days as I mentioned.  From day 8-15, she slept 6 or more hours and every day but one was decent, despite her beginning her period on day 8.  So I think it took her 7 days to stabilize, not 5.

[[Buddie]]

I don't know how to answer on what % to cut.  Maybe negotiate and agree on 4%?  If it goes well you'll be a hero.  If not - well you know

Also - I just wanted to say how smart it is that you are avoiding cuts around her cycle.  Not sure if you both planned it that way or if it was a happy accident but I think it is really smart!  Any little edge we can get to minimize any symptoms creates a lot of hope in moving forward with the process. 

One more thing...  I cut too much too fast a couple of times and had the "stack up" of stuff happen.  I don't think you are at that point but I would let at least 10 days go by with the clonazepam... Its what I'm dealing with as well.  It takes about 4-5 days to feel the cut for me, and another few days to feel decent enough to move forward.   

Good luck with the cut let us know what you all decide.

[[Buddie]]

Thank you for that.  We agreed to try 3% for 3-5 days and then move up to the 5% at that point, so off to file down some pills again at 9pm at night . 

I am already looked at as a bad person because my wife continually tells me that I should have figured out that this pill was as bad as it was before the doctor prescribed it. so I hear 3 times/day about that. So I'm digging out of a hole where my wife feels as if she can't trust me in her mind because she thinks if I loved her more I would have known this pill she was prescribed earlier than we realized.  I'm trying everything in my power to help restore my wife to her former self, let's hope it works because despite her constantly telling me that I don't love her, I love her very much.

[[Buddie]]

That sounds like a good plan on the cut.  Maybe hold a little longer before cutting again...   

And that's just the benzo lying to her.  I'm mad at my other half too for not knowing better as well, too bad it's myself! 

 She knows you love her and everything will be just fine. 

[[Buddie]]

Thank you for the encouragement. I truly appreciate it.  :-)