Author Topic: Lots of physical symptoms is this all withdrawals? Help  (Read 1114 times)

[Buddie]

Re: Lots of physical symptoms is this all withdrawals? Help
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2023, 10:05:18 pm »
Thank you for your advice, when do you suggest I make the next cut?
I was thinking to hold this for the next month or so.
Best from Me

I would definitely hold for a month minimum. You have been cutting hard, congrats on the progress, but slow down because getting it right the first time is key. And yes your symptoms sound very much like typical withdrawal symptoms. And resuming the .125 mid day dose is not a bad idea. That would put you back on .5 which is still substantially lower than you were in the fall, so its not so much a backtrack. Although if you settle down a bit it may not be necessary.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Lots of physical symptoms is this all withdrawals? Help
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2023, 12:46:49 am »
To answer your questions

1) it depends on each individual how quickly they recover after updosing. Both times when I updosed I felt back to "normal" within one day. But I've come to know I'm in the minority. I am yet to find another person who recovered this quickly. You should feel a significant difference within 3-5 days though. It also depends by how much you updose.  If the dose isn't enough then you might not feel an effect. That's why I gave Hope4me two options as one updose might not be enough. What I have noticed though is that updosing works the majority of the time when you've clearly made big reductions.

2) I know people keep talking about kindling in updosing. I haven't found studies that support it. Kindling hasn't really been studied in benzo's but we do suspect it works the same as alcohol which has been studied. In alcohol the problem is stopping and starting the process (updosing is not cessation). Now I don't think it's good to regularly fluctuate your dose up and down simply because you need your blood serum levels consistent. When I updosed twice and then stabilized, my taper was functional and bearable. I have not been in benzo hell. If I was kindled I think I should've struggled immensely. There are people here who have never updosed and have worse symptoms than me. So in my opinion I don't think it's a big risk. We are more concerned about kindling when you've completely stopped and then start using benzo's again.

Thank for the reply.

Good to know that you go back to normal after a day to a few days. Question again LOL, do withdrawal symptoms usually go away too and the body returns to some sort of homeostasis? TBH, even though I'm managing the withdrawal okay right now, I'd rather play it safe than sorry. I have a lot of variables at play here, so even after 9 days of withdrawal, as in my case, I would reinstate original dose and somehow my body flips like a switch and in a few days all seems return to normal? I'm just worried about bringing about more symptoms that I don't need after reinstating...is there such thing as reinstatement symptoms though?

Also, let's say if I updose and reinstate my original dose from 0.25mg to 0.5mg (which yes was a hugh drop in dosage) how long should I stabilize on that before doing a proper taper? 14 days? One month?

If you're still managing okay right now and not getting worse it's probably not necessary to updose. When going through withdrawal we just need you to be functional. Functional means you're not feeling good or great but you're able to do what is expected of you on a daily basis. If you look at my signature you'll see at the start of my taper I went from 2mg Clonazepam to 0.5mg. I was really sick and struggled to function and didn't know it was the benzo reduction. Eventually when I figured it out, I updosed, BUT I only updosed to 1mg not 2mg. So I started with a 50% reduction. Then I made another 50% reduction. This time I became bedridden with severe acute symptoms - diarrhea, vomiting, could barely lift my head from the pillow etc. I couldn't function at all and updosed back to 1mg again.

However, I understand you're dealing with LC as well and if this cut is causing a lot of anxiety and stress and you feel mentally unsure about it, you can updose. Sometimes peace of mind is just as important. If you're going to keep stressing about the cut, it's not worth it in my opinion.

Withdrawal symptoms "doesn't go away" completely. When you make a cut it intensifies and then it becomes less intense. We talk about symptoms waxing and waning or windows and waves. So that's why I said I felt "normal" in inverted commas. In comparison to the severe symptoms I felt, I was back to a state where I could much easier manage my symptoms.

I would hold for 6 weeks just to be sure, especially with your LC. This is either starting from your cut or starting from the date of the updose. Your body has taken a big knock. I hope this helps.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Lots of physical symptoms is this all withdrawals? Help
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2023, 05:25:13 pm »
To answer your questions

1) it depends on each individual how quickly they recover after updosing. Both times when I updosed I felt back to "normal" within one day. But I've come to know I'm in the minority. I am yet to find another person who recovered this quickly. You should feel a significant difference within 3-5 days though. It also depends by how much you updose.  If the dose isn't enough then you might not feel an effect. That's why I gave Hope4me two options as one updose might not be enough. What I have noticed though is that updosing works the majority of the time when you've clearly made big reductions.

2) I know people keep talking about kindling in updosing. I haven't found studies that support it. Kindling hasn't really been studied in benzo's but we do suspect it works the same as alcohol which has been studied. In alcohol the problem is stopping and starting the process (updosing is not cessation). Now I don't think it's good to regularly fluctuate your dose up and down simply because you need your blood serum levels consistent. When I updosed twice and then stabilized, my taper was functional and bearable. I have not been in benzo hell. If I was kindled I think I should've struggled immensely. There are people here who have never updosed and have worse symptoms than me. So in my opinion I don't think it's a big risk. We are more concerned about kindling when you've completely stopped and then start using benzo's again.

Thank for the reply.

Good to know that you go back to normal after a day to a few days. Question again LOL, do withdrawal symptoms usually go away too and the body returns to some sort of homeostasis? TBH, even though I'm managing the withdrawal okay right now, I'd rather play it safe than sorry. I have a lot of variables at play here, so even after 9 days of withdrawal, as in my case, I would reinstate original dose and somehow my body flips like a switch and in a few days all seems return to normal? I'm just worried about bringing about more symptoms that I don't need after reinstating...is there such thing as reinstatement symptoms though?

Also, let's say if I updose and reinstate my original dose from 0.25mg to 0.5mg (which yes was a hugh drop in dosage) how long should I stabilize on that before doing a proper taper? 14 days? One month?

If you're still managing okay right now and not getting worse it's probably not necessary to updose. When going through withdrawal we just need you to be functional. Functional means you're not feeling good or great but you're able to do what is expected of you on a daily basis. If you look at my signature you'll see at the start of my taper I went from 2mg Clonazepam to 0.5mg. I was really sick and struggled to function and didn't know it was the benzo reduction. Eventually when I figured it out, I updosed, BUT I only updosed to 1mg not 2mg. So I started with a 50% reduction. Then I made another 50% reduction. This time I became bedridden with severe acute symptoms - diarrhea, vomiting, could barely lift my head from the pillow etc. I couldn't function at all and updosed back to 1mg again.

However, I understand you're dealing with LC as well and if this cut is causing a lot of anxiety and stress and you feel mentally unsure about it, you can updose. Sometimes peace of mind is just as important. If you're going to keep stressing about the cut, it's not worth it in my opinion.

Withdrawal symptoms "doesn't go away" completely. When you make a cut it intensifies and then it becomes less intense. We talk about symptoms waxing and waning or windows and waves. So that's why I said I felt "normal" in inverted commas. In comparison to the severe symptoms I felt, I was back to a state where I could much easier manage my symptoms.

I would hold for 6 weeks just to be sure, especially with your LC. This is either starting from your cut or starting from the date of the updose. Your body has taken a big knock. I hope this helps.

Thanks for the advice. Youíre absolutely right. When it comes to stressing over whether or not I should reinstate and updose and that I should just do it, itís not worth the stress especially when LC is in play.

That waxing and waning, windows and waves analogy makes perfect sense. Itís all about management of symptoms and being able to function. We all learn from our mistakes and thatís what makes us a better person for tomorrow. Also, thank you for sharing your experience with me, letís me know that Iím not alone in this and as humans we do make mistakes but we ultimately have control and power to correct those mistakes and come back next time into much well informed and stronger.

Iím still 4 days out to seeing if this cut truly worked, 10 days in now, feeling good, a little nauseous, woke up with a small craving too but it moved to a different area of the lungs, the sides whereas it mostly stayed in my chest in the beginning. Itís like itís fading by moving downward as my breathing opens up and gets better.

But like you said, and itís true, my WD  symptoms are becoming less and less intense as days go on, Iím now breathing much better as of last night. I think thatís where I turned a corner right before day 10, but Iím trying to remain as positive and optimistic as possible, rebound WD symptoms are still a risk. Iím not out of the woods yet, but I turned that corner last night and can see the finish line finally. Just got to put in the work in order to get there and stabilize for 6 weeks at least.

But it might be longer than 6 weeks, and Iím ok with that, at this point in my LC journey I needed a win. I felt so defeated by taking a full pill, now that Iíve halved it, I can work towards another goal in the future by slowly tapering 0.25mg. Who knows when thatíll be but like I said, Iím okay with 0.25mg for a bit.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Lots of physical symptoms is this all withdrawals? Help
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2023, 07:35:50 pm »
It sounds like you're physically and mentally in a fairly good place right now.  That's very promising.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Lots of physical symptoms is this all withdrawals? Help
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2023, 06:18:21 pm »
Hello,
Thank you again for your advice. I did reinstate my mid dose, unfortunately I had to have 3 steroid shots into my pelvic muscles and it has really thrown me off.
What do you suggest for my next cut and continued reduction?
Thanks again.
Best from Hope
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Lots of physical symptoms is this all withdrawals? Help
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2023, 11:08:47 pm »
Hello,
Thank you again for your advice. I did reinstate my mid dose, unfortunately I had to have 3 steroid shots into my pelvic muscles and it has really thrown me off.
What do you suggest for my next cut and continued reduction?
Thanks again.
Best from Hope

I'm sorry to hear you've had another setback. Steroids are generally contra-indicated with benzo's and many of us have bad reactions to it. I hope you're not planning on making a cut just yet?
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Lots of physical symptoms is this all withdrawals? Help
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2023, 12:19:53 am »
Hello,
No Iím not planning another cut, but the weird things is when I take the medicine the K it makes me feel worse!!! Itís like my nerves donít like it!!
I canít take the regular pills I have to take the one I put on my tongue. The ODT version.

So my current dose is this
9 am 0.0625 mg
3 pm 0.0625 mg
9 pm 0.125 mg

My pain doctor is suggesting a low dose of Naltrexone? Are you familiar with it?
I took it last year but at a much higher dose and after abrupt cessation of Ativan.
I just want to do it right this time.

Thank you again for your support.
Best - Hope
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Lots of physical symptoms is this all withdrawals? Help
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2023, 12:44:16 am »
Is it the only the one brand of K that is making you feel sick or do you feel sick regardless of which one you take?

I am only familiar with LDN in Long Covid and have not used it myself. I haven't read much about it on here. I personally would be hesitant to introduce new meds during a taper. I'm not anti-medication just weary that our CNS is very sensitive and anything could destabilise us. You could try and ask on
Other Medications to see if others have experience with it.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Lots of physical symptoms is this all withdrawals? Help
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2023, 03:33:41 pm »
The only brand I seem to tolerate is made by Sun Pharmacy, but even that is not great. I donít tolerate any medication which is why this is so hard. Not even Tylenol or Motrin and I have paradoxical reactions.
Iím being strong, but this is by far the toughest thing Iíve ever gone through.

Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Lots of physical symptoms is this all withdrawals? Help
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2023, 07:14:59 pm »
Oh gosh, that's really tough. There are lots of members who are sensitive to different brands. I'm really sorry this is such a nightmare. Hopefully once you're off things will settle down. We just need to taper you down in a sensible way. Hang in there, you're doing great!  :smitten:
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.