More jittery after short course diazapam?

[[Buddie]]

I’m weaning off diazapam after really bad reaction to flu jab. Started on 5 mg about 8 weeks ago ,really helped at first but last couple weeks almost feel more jittery after taking it. Been experiencing really bad sleep and stressful dreams. Just cut down  to 1.5mg as only getting limited supply, have been cutting every couple weeks.  Is this normal symptom. Nothing like as bad as the zop CT symptoms, wondering if I’m taking it wrong time day as been taking it just before bed. Have been trying to do more so possibly combination of that as well, just started therapy so having discuss lot bad memories too.. I want get off it ASAP just wondered if this is normal reaction?

[[Buddie]]

Hi [...]

Could you do us a favour and add your diazepam taper details to your history/signature. It really is impossible for us to provide feedback if we can’t see your diazepam taper details.

Over the last 8 weeks, how often have you made reductions and what were the size of your reductions? Also, what dose were you on before you dropped to 1.5mg. You are tapering very fast, so I’m not surprised you’re feeling jittery. I can tell you that I tend to feel more anxiety and internal shaking post dosing when I’ve become unstable.

Can you tell me why you’re only getting a limited supply? Your doctor should be prescribing you enough to maintain your taper plan?

Add your history/signature

[[Buddie]]

Hi [...]

Could you do us a favour and add your diazepam taper details to your history/signature. It really is impossible for us to provide feedback if we can’t see your diazepam taper details.

Over the last 8 weeks, how often have you made reductions and what were the size of your reductions? Also, what dose were you on before you dropped to 1.5mg. You are tapering very fast, so I’m not surprised you’re feeling jittery. I can tell you that I tend to feel more anxiety and internal shaking post dosing when I’ve become unstable.

Can you tell me why you’re only getting a limited supply? Your doctor should be prescribing you enough to maintain your taper plan?

Add your history/signature

[...] has posted on the Valium board what she's been doing. She has frequently posted regarding the disaster with her c/t off zopiclone. She still hasn't fully healed from that, few if any windows. Here is the link to the Valium board discussion. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=96753.msg3433539#msg3433539 She was basically given only short term use of the diazepam, and she has stated that the doctor won't provide any beyond a certain period. Her reductions she gave in the discussion on the Valium board. I think the taper is too fast, but she is stuck with what the doctor decided as to how long she would be prescribed. She basically has been cutting by 50% every two weeks. Which we both know is too much. We also know many come on these boards in a situation like hers, doctors won't budge. So, the best we can do is help them with what they have, and guide them to other support groups. It sucks, but it is the reality for so many on here.

[[Buddie]]

Thanks Lottie, you have described my situation precisely. According to Ashton from 5 mg you can taper by 1 mg every 1-2 weeks. I was on 5mg about 4 weeks definitely helped with th SI thoughts, then went down to about 3.75mg for couple weeks, then 2.5 mg for about 2 weeks, and have just cut to 1.5 mg. In UK they are very anti it I had to put in official complaint to get any. I’ve just been given months worth of 2 mg that’s it. It’s only about last week had few jittery days, I am wondering if possibly it’s to do with therapy as well, it’s very intense, had very toxic mother , with lot emotional stress, plus my sleep is awful. According to Ashton I’m tapering roughly the correct amount, Just want to get of all meds as all I keep hearing is the longer you stay on it harder it is to come off. Also the flu jab obviously takes while to come out my system. I have read you can jump at 0.5 mg. As I’ve only been on tiny dose for short time think in my case a long taper not good idea. Plus I’m doing according to Ashton plan.

[[Buddie]]

I’m weaning off diazapam after really bad reaction to flu jab. Started on 5 mg about 8 weeks ago ,really helped at first but last couple weeks almost feel more jittery after taking it. Been experiencing really bad sleep and stressful dreams. Just cut down  to 1.5mg as only getting limited supply, have been cutting every couple weeks.  Is this normal symptom. Nothing like as bad as the zop CT symptoms, wondering if I’m taking it wrong time day as been taking it just before bed. Have been trying to do more so possibly combination of that as well, just started therapy so having discuss lot bad memories too.. I want get off it ASAP just wondered if this is normal reaction?

The drastic cuts are catching up with you. That is a very normal reaction, as you are rapidly tapering. You were dependent within the first two weeks you took it. It helped initially because your still healing GABA receptors were being flooded with the diazepam. But once you started making these huge cuts, withdrawal set in. And you are feeling it. Getting off ASAP is not recommended, but since your doctor won't give you more than several weeks worth, you really don't have any choice. Ideally, you should be doing smaller cuts, and tapering longer. Changing the time you take your dose, is unlikely to make a difference. You are going to have withdrawal regardless. Feeling jittery, bad sleep, all withdrawal. Perfectly normal, but the intensity could be lessened if you slowed down the taper rate and took smaller cuts. With the big cuts, and rapid taper, things are likely to feel worse ap to, and after, you get off. Are you prepared for that possibility? If you want to minimize the withdrawal, you are going to have to see if your doctor will let you do a proper taper, and prescribe what you need to do that. Rushing the taper is never a good idea. 

[[Buddie]]

It was psych, GP refuses to prescribe any. Def won’t give me any more had to beg to get 3 months worth. Ashton manual says from 5 mg you can make cuts of 1 mg every 1-2 weeks, is that incorrect then? It’s only been last few days felt bit off, it’s not awful, nithing like coming off zopiclone. I’ll see how it goes, I do think it’s partly the therapy as well. I don’t really have a choice as no way she’s going give me any more. Unlike the US  they are very  anti it here, and you get told to just stop it. I did get a months supply a few years ago when husband was ill didn’t have any lingering withdrawal. I)ve had insomnia fir years, that comes and goes so used to that.

[[Buddie]]

It was psych, GP refuses to prescribe any. Def won’t give me any more had to beg to get 3 months worth. Ashton manual says from 5 mg you can make cuts of 1 mg every 1-2 weeks, is that incorrect then? It’s only been last few days felt bit off, it’s not awful, nithing like coming off zopiclone. I’ll see how it goes, I do think it’s partly the therapy as well. I don’t really have a choice as no way she’s going give me any more. Unlike the US  they are very  anti it here, and you get told to just stop it. I did get a months supply a few years ago when husband was ill didn’t have any lingering withdrawal. I)ve had insomnia fir years, that comes and goes so used to that.

It's 10 to 14 days minimum, of 1 mg. You made greater than 1 mg cuts. Ashton says those are guides, but not set in stone. Ashton is a symptom-based self-taper. So how much you cut, and holding longer between cuts (Ashton says 3 weeks, some on this forum find longer is needed), is done based on how stable you are. Therapy can bring up unpleasant feelings from your past, and they can certainly manifest in physical feelings. With continued therapy, those should resolve. Do you still have the 5 mg pills, and are you still cutting them in quarters for your 1.5 mg dose? I would honestly stay there, until you have exhausted that supply. Then you can move on to the 2 mg pills, which you said you would get 4 weeks of. As I said in the Valium board, reduce to 1 mg for a few weeks, let your body catch up to the cuts, and you could stretch out the remaining pills at .5 then jump.

Also, in the US, guidelines have wide variations. It depends on the state you live in, the provider you go to that accepts your insurance, etc. Plenty in the US are forced off too quickly or c/t'd. And since the FDA added black box warnings, some providers are not prescribing, or limiting how long they prescribe them.

[[Buddie]]

I’m cutting up the 2 mg to 1.5, then will use quarter of the 5 mg which think is 1,25, then go down to 1mg then 0,50 mg and hopefully jump. Symptoms aren’t awful, think it’s therapy as always just after that feel bit off. Just figure after 4 years of this just want get off meds, also limited to how many I have. The Ashton manual def says every 1-2 weeks and I’ll go slower the last few weeks. Not really helping now so just want get off them as only been on them briefly, think long term use causes more problems.

[[Buddie]]

I’m cutting up the 2 mg to 1.5, then will use quarter of the 5 mg which think is 1,25, then go down to 1mg then 0,50 mg and hopefully jump. Symptoms aren’t awful, think it’s therapy as always just after that feel bit off. Just figure after 4 years of this just want get off meds, also limited to how many I have. The Ashton manual def says every 1-2 weeks and I’ll go slower the last few weeks. Not really helping now so just want get off them as only been on them briefly, think long term use causes more problems.

Yes, quarter of 5 mg is 1.25 mg. You're doing what I suggested, go down by .5 and jump once you have only .5 left for a couple weeks. You have to work with what you are prescribed by the doctor. Just expect things will be rough once you jump. It will take time for the remaining diazepam metabolites to clear your system. That can take a couple weeks. That period after you go from 1.25 to 1 will let your body catch up with the taper, since your reduction will be .25. I hope all goes well and you don't have any worse symptoms.

[[Buddie]]

I’m cutting up the 2 mg to 1.5, then will use quarter of the 5 mg which think is 1,25, then go down to 1mg then 0,50 mg and hopefully jump. Symptoms aren’t awful, think it’s therapy as always just after that feel bit off. Just figure after 4 years of this just want get off meds, also limited to how many I have. The Ashton manual def says every 1-2 weeks and I’ll go slower the last few weeks. Not really helping now so just want get off them as only been on them briefly, think long term use causes more problems.

Yes, quarter of 5 mg is 1.25 mg. You're doing what I suggested, go down by .5 and jump once you have only .5 left for a couple weeks. You have to work with what you are prescribed by the doctor. Just expect things will be rough once you jump. It will take time for the remaining diazepam metabolites to clear your system. That can take a couple weeks. That period after you go from 1.25 to 1 will let your body catch up with the taper, since your reduction will be .25. I hope all goes well and you don't have any worse symptoms.

[...]:

Thanks so much for helping [...] out. Much appreciated!

I agree, it’s a very difficult situation and [...] seems to have no choice but to manage the fast taper as sensibly as possible.

[...]:

Ashton is just a guide, and in terms of tapering rates, to a degree, we tend to be moving away from it now in favour of a slower taper where reductions are not only between 5-10% every 10-14 days, but that 5-10% is also calculated (or recalculated), from each new lower dose you’re at, so the reduction percentage never climbs above the set 5-10%. One would normally use a calculator and a precision jewellers scale to make accurate reductions. The other thing I would consider is this - generally, if someone has previously tapered from similar medication in the past, which is a z-drug in your case, it can potentially make any future taper/withdrawal considerably more difficult/symptomatic, often calling for an even slower taper the second time around. I think it’s safe to say, we know you can have difficulty coming of this medication because you are still recovering from a similar medication that affects the Gabba receptors (Zopiclone), so it makes sense that you are experiencing withdrawal symptoms.

I do agree with [...], you are in a difficult position, so you just have to work out the most sensible taper you can with your remaining meds. I don’t think there’s any doubt that you are jittery because of the sizeable reductions and rapid taper rate, and please keep in mind, the symptoms will likely increase symptoms are as you lower your dose further at this rate and then jump. The valium will eventually leave your body completely (obviously), taking you into the acute withdrawal phase. It sounds like you are working out your remaining doses the best that you can, so just keep doing that to give yourself the least intense withdrawal and recovery possible.

Just know that we will always be here to support you, so please reach out whenever you feel you need that support. You will get through this, whatever your symptoms, they will eventually decrease and resolve over time.