worried about rapid taper

[[Buddie]]

Thats ok WinterSun, i always welcome your vaild input and advise.
Ive no intention of cowering to this doctor of mine. He knows dam well, if i get sparked , i do speak up. I have probably spoken up too much and maybe git a bit lippy with him, but i dont regret it. Hes been so condescending with me and snarky, lately,  that i would really love to punch him in the face. 

I have a phone call coming from my therapist today and im sending her a copy of Dr Shipkos email. Im not tolerating her condescending attitude with this tapering process neither.  If she refuses to help better than what she is, ill be waving her off. Im tired of being ignored and laughed at, which i remembered thats what my dam doctor did a few times during my appointment Wednesday. Telling me i cant lead my own taper or reduce my dose lower , at 5% a month...its doable,  he just doesn't want me in charge . My thinking is he has to be in control and if not, well , patients that speak up can just bugger off. Hes only about 8 yrs in practicing as a physician. Hes a newb  Lol.

We will see how todays chitchat goes with my therapist.  Im no longer in any mood to tolerate lip service and ignorance by these people. ( doctors and therapists at my clinic).

Hope you all have a great weekend.  Will talk later. 

Good for you, moojoo,

I find it astonishing that doctors think the patient doesn’t have a right to question their advise and treatment, believing we should just blindly trust them with our lives. It’s called God Complex, and it’s rife throughout the medical community. It’s often extremely difficult to crack their overinflated egos and stop them from talking down to us.

Enjoy your weekend, moojoo!

I hope it’s better than my Friday the 13th - A unattached runaway trailer from a gardening service came rocketing down my hill and smashed into my car writing it off completely, then I melted a chord and blew up the toaster, and then I burned my arm badly on the oven. Couldn’t wait for midnight to strike! 

[[Buddie]]

I'm back again and messed up.
I was so concentrated on my tapering off X, that i completely forgot about the fact that i am also on Ox for sleep. Ive been taking 45mg nightly for about 20 yrs , i think. It may be longer, I just never thought about it. The doctor actually didnt even bother to question that one and he was only super focused on the X all this time.This is one screwed up situation now that im realizing it.

Im seriously ticked off at myself for not thinking of that when i joined the forum here. The doctor had mentioned it only a few times before, thats about it. What should I do at this point?

I know Im working hard to get off the X, seeing its the most potent, and probably one reason why i completely forgot about it. But i will be setting up an appointment to see the clinics pharmacist,  whom was suggested by my therapist Friday. She also mentioned Harm Reduction? From  Dr. S's message  Wednesday via email, he pretty much said the same thing. Im a newb about that so, its sounding like im headed into a whole new ball game here. I'm really getting confused and anxious now. More so about whats coming next. I take nothing else, if theres any question about that.

The pharmacist will be well aware of the therapist notes and the doctor's,  so my thinking is she will ask me about the Ox as well. So now I know I may have to try to taper off the Ox  as well or should i remain focused on the X taper?  Another conundrum and Im getting wore down by this. I never had problems with my meds at all until the doctor suddenly decided I had to cut the X in half last year, mainly because he was worried I would get dementia . All this suffering and for what. Its starting to work on my anxiety and stress at one huge phenomenal rate.

 I certainly didnt mean to leave that out, with all thats been going on since last year, it just never seemed all that important to me I guess...  :/   old brain , not quite the same. ** sighs**
 

[[Buddie]]

Hi moojoo,

We’ve had or have quite a few tapering two different benzo’s, so don’t be overly concerned. Just post that message you sent via PM here so anything we discuss has context to others, and so others can offer you feedback. 

[[Buddie]]

I edited it a bit Winter sun , as I left some thoughts out. Im super freaked out right now. Between Dr S's email and the heart/stroke scare now and this ongoing rapid taper from X, I just dont know what to do now or how to cope with this. I am seriously terrified of going through way worse withdrawals and getting sicker at my age. I just turned 65 , and am so upset now..sorrry....

[[Buddie]]

I edited it a bit Winter sun , as I left some thoughts out. Im super freaked out right now. Between Dr S's email and the heart/stroke scare now and this ongoing rapid taper from X, I just dont know what to do now or how to cope with this. I am seriously terrified of going through way worse withdrawals and getting sicker at my age. I just turned 65 , and am so upset now..sorrry....

Hi moojoo,

Will reply properly a little later. I have to go to a few bodywork’s as my car was in a stationary accident on Friday and I have to get a few quotes.

As understandable as it is, please don’t work yourself up too much. We will work through this with you!

[[Buddie]]

Hi moojoo

So there are a number of issues to work through here, so we’ll just take it step by step. I’ll also ask other moderators and admin to post any thoughts they may have about your situation.

1) clearly, your doctor has no idea what he’s doing or how he’s hurting you. If he can’t be brought around to helping you rather than harming you, then it really is important that you find another doctor. It’s not essential for potential replacements to be benzo wise (although preferable), they just need to be open to working and learning alongside you, rather than being completely dismissive, working against you, and causing increased unnecessary suffering. They just need to be open to a much more sensible, slower taper.

2) If I were in your position, I would focus on tapering just one of the benzodiazepine medications at a time, so I would continue to just focus on the Xanax and leave the Oxazepam for last.

3) issues associated with dosing two short half life benzodiazepines - Using the conversion calculator, your 3mg daily Xanax dose = 45mg Diazepam (Valium) and your 45mg Oxazepam nightly dose = 22mg Diazepam. The half life of the Xanax is 9-20hrs and the Oxazepam has a half life of 3-24hrs. Because of the very short half life of these medications, most people have to dose more than once per day to avoid interdose withdrawals. I would say the reason you haven’t experienced interdose withdrawals during the day from the nightly Oxazepam doses is because of the Xanax, so it makes sense to me that as you taper away the Xanax, you will reach a stage where you will not only be going through periods of withdrawal from the Xanax reductions, but you may also eventually begin experiencing underlying interdose withdrawals from the Oxazepam, so at some point down the road, you will most likely have to split your 45mg nightly Oxazepam dose into 2 or 3 doses and dose multiple times a day because of it’s short half life. But these are things that can be dealt with when the time comes. Just focus on slowly tapering the Xanax first, but I wouldn’t even begin tapering from the 3mg until the issues with your doctor have been resolved and your stress levels have lessened considerably.

We will help you to devise and adjust your taper plan as needed along the way.

Let’s just see how it all plays out with your doctor in regard to the other psychiatrists email… and then we’ll know where things stand for you. Also, keep seeking out another doctor, preferably one who has the ability to feel compassion for their patients.

I know this appears to you to be a monumentally difficult task at the moment, but with the right support and a sensibly slow and adjustable taper plan, it doesn’t have to be the long painful process you fear it will be. You just need support, and a taper rate that works comfortably for you, as there’s no such thing as tapering too slowly.

In the meantime, I’ll ask other moderators or admin to share anything they may have to offer.

[[Buddie]]

Thank you  Winter sun. I was thinking pretty much the same thing in regards to focusing on just tapering off the xanax for now. I just didnt see the oxazepam as being a  huge issue, i dont think i ever did. My old doctor from back in the late 90s had prescribed the oxazepam first but i continued to have bad anxiety/panic attacks during the day, and after 2 psychiatrists and 2 psychologists, and numerous trials of a myriad of different antidepressants and SSRI's, within less than a years span, and which none could be tolerated, I was eventually prescribed xanax to take during the day. I remember the pscyh docs and none of them were particularly helpful, just more interested in drugging me up. I told my doctor at that time i was done with that garbage. Little did i know i was on my way to hell anyway.

So essentially ive been on them both for close to the same amount of time. Probably only a year apart. I went over my medical records i got a couple years ago, and was trying to see when exactly all this crap started, all i found was 2006 of both listed as my only medications history when i was referred to see a neurologist for ongoing rotator cuff , back and other joint pain.  At that time i was diagnosed with fibromyalgia,  which is just a fancy way of telling me , " we dont know whats wrong with you so we'll give it this name", kind of thing.

Ive tried to get the clinic to go back farther in my records, but the accounts office said they couldnt find anything  earlier than 1997. So thats all i have to go on.

 I am going in to see the clinics pharmacist on Wednesday morning ,as my therapist advised, and see  if she can figure out how to slow this tapering down and she mentioned the harm reduction part as well. I just want this whole situation to end. Im getting terribly worn out with this whole thing.  Im also taking that copy of my email from Dr.S. with me. Also advised by therapist.

I truly value all your inputs and will take it with me when i go Wednesday to see the pharmacist,  as you all have the experiences and knowledge of how this all works. Its important to me, very important.  The doctor? If this pharmacist helps me as i am hoping,  he will have to listen to her. I know it, as my therapist said hes young and still needs education in this field so, fingers crossed.  God knows im now getting extremely overwhelmed and petrified with this now..  its a lot to take in... *** breathe***

[[Buddie]]

Hi [...], I was just reading the last few posts by you and [...] and saw you made an unwelcome discovery but I’m glad you did so we can help you work this out.

I agree with [...] about focusing on the Xanax taper for now, typically we suggest tapering the shorter acting benzo first but since you’re already working on the Xanax it makes sense to continue doing that.  I hope you won’t be overwhelmed by what’s happened but I know this has to be discouraging. 

In the back of my mind I’m wondering if the Oxazepam was the cause of your panic and anxiety and that’s why the Xanax was the only drug that helped you.  And of course, that fibromyalgia diagnosis is a pretty common one for us too.  Oh well, its not important at this point but I shake my head at the ignorance of the practitioners prescribing these drugs. 

[[Buddie]]

TRIGGER ALERT!!!

Thank you [...], i agree with you and Winter sun.

Im going to relay that to the pharmacist Wednesday,  and hope she is of more help than the doctor on this, but at least i now have my therapist on board with me on this,  even though she can only advise to a certain degree. Her reading the email from Dr Shipko,  and checking out his website was encouraging.  She did say she understood my pain. And i was suffering anxiety/panic attacks long before,  years from when i was a very young girl. I remembered my first one, as young as 5 yrs old. Some said its genetics,  others say how one was raised, maybe a traumatic experience? I question it often.

Forgive me, im just not so positive about many things these days, since ive been pretty much shoved through a sieve for years,I  keep worrying that all this will end badly. Im still struggling to get myself back up off my backside. 


AGAIN...TRIGGER ALERT!!

I  just had a sort of breakdown or epiphany earlier today.  I was doing dishes and trying to occupy  my mind and this sudden vision of thousands of hands and arms , waving and screaming above water, and the faces of peoples faces below, the water,   horribly distorted in pain ,  suffering, drowning became so surreal, i just stopped and at that very point became quite emotionally overcome by sadness, i  broke down in tears. It was so strong, emotionally. It was like i  envisioned this whole forum in those poor faces,  and every single personal story ive read made me feel more connected,  attached somehow.  I felt the pain,sadness , fear, all of it.  Its happened to me before, but not this intense. Is this normal or am i actually losing my mind? Ive always , almost never shared such things with anyone. I merely keep thoughts or visions like that to myself.

Im ok now, and hopefully it wont hit me again. 

[[Buddie]]

I’m relieved to know you had anxiety before you were put on the Oxazepam, at least it wasn’t the cause of your distress.

It sounds like you’re dealing with intrusive thoughts and they can take many forms, I’m sorry it was so powerful but what you described fits our plight perfectly.  You can share these thoughts here without judgement, the fear and pain we go through effects us deeply.

I’m glad to know you have a therapist who understands and the pharmacist sounds helpful too, and you have us so please don’t lose hope.