Author Topic: Valium dosing question maybe builder(?)  (Read 3343 times)

[Buddie]

Re: Valium dosing question maybe builder(?)
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2019, 07:20:30 pm »
Ah man, now I really don't know what to do anymore. I thought my plan was brilliant :P

So I guess you are saying I should just stick to the taperingstrips reducing with 0,1 mg?

I try my damnedest to avoid telling what anyone should do with their taper. But Valium tapering strips, with 0.1mg decrements, seems like the ideal way to taper. You are already on the benzodiazepine Prof. Ashton thought ideal, and you can reliably reduce your dose by amounts smaller by a factor of ten! The long half-life provides a cushion to each reduction - you do not get that with shorter half-life tablets.

I expect that the reality [...] that you cannot noticeably negatively affect your taper via titrating such a small proportion of your dose. If the whole 0.1mg should be spoiled, it can only account for 3% drop to your dose. This [...] generally will within what [...] tolerable when tapering Valium. And if we go in the other direction (where bioavailability shoots up), by how much? Realistically, I'd find it hard to believe that it could be multiples of the stated dose. What I will say [...] that if I was using a method where I could rely upon the dose, and it allowed me to make very small cuts, and from a modest daily dose, I think I would stick with what [...] tried and tested.

The thing to keep in mind [...] that experiencing withdrawal symptoms [...] to be expected by most of us around here. There [...] no good evidence that there [...] any way to guarantee avoiding symptoms. Smaller, more frequent cuts are generally better tolerated than less frequent, larger cuts. But there are limits to this. We should keep in mind, even with Valium and its relatively long half-life, we should expect interdose reductions to blood concentrations of 10% or more. And most usually tolerate this just fine. So, getting hung up on the accuracy of a reductions of about about 0.3% (5ml from 50ml of liquid, a tenth of 0.1mg from a total dose of 3.3mg) makes little sense. And, we should expect variations of dose in individual pills of at least a few percent. (5% of your 2mg pill equates to 0.1mg). But you should not let this unduly worry you. The important, overarching factor [...] the overall taper picture. We generally tolerate these differences in dosage just fine. Try not to worry about it. These larger factors just put into perspective that concentrating on the accuracy of tiny amounts when there are regularly much larger changes (which we generally tolerate) [...] a waste of time, energy and emotional strength.

I think you will be fine.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2019, 08:23:54 pm by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Valium dosing question maybe builder(?)
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2019, 07:31:47 pm »
Ah man, now I really don't know what to do anymore. I thought my plan was brilliant :P

So I guess you are saying I should just stick to the taperingstrips reducing with 0,1 mg?

I try my damnedest to avoid telling what anyone should do with their taper. But Valium tapering strips, with 0.1mg decrements, seems like the ideal way to taper. You are already on the benzodiazepine Prof. Ashton thought ideal, and you can reliably reduce your dose by amounts smaller by a factor of ten! The long half-life provides a cushion to each reduction - you do not get that with shorter half-life tablets.

I expect that the reality [...] that you cannot noticeably negatively affect your taper via titrating such a small proportion of your dose. If the whole 0.1mg should be spoiled, it can only account for 3% drop to your dose. This [...] generally will within what [...] tolerable when tapering Valium. And if we go in the other direction (where bioavailability shoots up), by how much? Realistically, I'd find it hard to believe that it could be multiples of the stated dose. What I will say [...] that if I was using a method where I could rely upon the dose, and it allowed me to make very small cuts, and from a modest daily dose, I think I would stick with what [...] tried and tested.

The thing to keep in mind [...] that experiencing withdrawal symptoms [...] to be expected by most of us around here. There [...] no good evidence that there [...] any way to guarantee avoiding symptoms. Smaller, more frequent cuts are generally better tolerated than less frequent, larger cuts. But there are limits to this. We should keep in mind, even with Valium and its relatively long half-life, we should expect interdose reductions to blood concentrations of 10% or more. And most usually tolerate this just fine. So, getting hung up on the accuracy of a reductions of about about 0.3% (5ml from 50ml of liquid, a tenth of 0.1mg from a total dose of 3.3mg) makes little sense. And, we should expect variations of dose in individual pills of  at least a few percent. (5% of your 2mg pill equates to 0.1mg). But this should not worry you. The important, overarching factor [...] the overall picture. We generally tolerate these differences in dosage just fine; I suggest that you instead concentrate on the larger, overall taper picture. Try not to worry about it. These larger factors just put into perspective that concentrating on accuracy of tiny amounts when there are regularly much larger changes (which we generally tolerate) [...] a waste of time, energy and emotional strength.

I think you will be fine.

Thanks man! I really appreciate this  :)
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Valium dosing question maybe builder(?)
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2019, 07:16:33 pm »
[...] what are the other 7- 8 other inactive ingredients in valium? Thank you

For example.  This would probably vary some from one mfgr to another.

"In addition to the active ingredient diazepam, each tablet contains the following inactive ingredients: colloidal silicon dioxide, magnesium stearate, microcrystalline cellulose, pregelatinized starch (corn) and sodium lauryl sulfate. The 5 mg tablets also contain FD&C Yellow No. 6 Aluminum Lake. The 10 mg tablets also contain FD&C Blue No. 1 Aluminum Lake and D&C Yellow No. 10 Aluminum Lake."

https://www.drugs.com/pro/diazepam-tablet.html#s-34089-3
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Valium dosing question maybe builder(?)
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2019, 02:31:29 am »
Sorry to the OP, here we are again...

I had problems switching to liquid (vodka)... I dont expect anyone to have the exact same problems I did, Yet many people have reported issues, -Some I have seen as far back as 2013/14... There was also a little survey some time ago that had a number of negative responses... I also have had a number of people PM me saying same...
Whatever the reasons might be, I dont particularly care.. We dont need “debunking” nor to be told its BS... And I guess while it might be true that its “in some peoples heads” Bluntly stating it [...] so, [...] far from supportive for most people... I tend to be pretty quiet on it due to the potential fear factor, but that said, many of those I have spoken to about it are pretty clear and realistic or whateva people...


I believe you are referring to a thread that Jim Hawk made? Here's a link if anyone [...] interested:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=200707.0

I'm so thankful that Jim Hawk started that thread as it gave me a pretty good idea of what to expect when I started a liquid taper.

I started tapering from 2 MG of Klonopin last July. Since I was apprehensive about the transition to liquid I decided to titrate 1 MG using propylene glycol while still taking 1 MG dry. This worked out okay for me.

Once I got to 1 MG, I switched to all liquid which was somewhat of a problem for me. It wasn't a seamless transition at all and I abandoned it after 4 days. I then went back to half and half and this worked out okay for me until this week as I'm now down to .5 MG a night.

This isn't directed at you as much as anyone else who will read this ([...]?), but I'm not sure how to taper this last .5 MGs? I use 1 MG pills and I was under the impression that you could cut it up to four times. [...] it okay to do this as I was planning to do half and half again down to .25 MG?

Are people here saying that propylene glycol [...] not okay? I ask this because I was coming off a pretty high dose so maybe the efficacy of that method was a nonissue? My concern [...] with dropping to a lower amount using this method.

If propylene glycol [...] not okay then I guess I will have to try alcohol. Milk [...] not an option since I travel a lot for work.

These past couple of threads have been a real eye opener for me. If I go to all liquid I may just stick with the same dose for a few weeks so that my body can adjust to it.

Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Valium dosing question maybe builder(?)
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2019, 01:21:55 pm »
Hello, [...].  First and foremost, congratulations on getting to 0.5mg from 2.0mg - that’s a major accomplishment!  If you’d like input from other members on how they have tapered from 0.5mg, you might consider posting to the support group for clonazepam/Klonopin at:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=163449.msg2967314#msg2967314
(The above links to the current last post.)

Members there have devised a variety of strategies (both “dry” and “wet”)  to make small reductions in their dose using a variety of tapering schedules.

For example, if you are in the US, clonazepam [...] available in 0.125mg and 0.25mg orally disintegrating tablets.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Valium dosing question maybe builder(?)
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2019, 01:25:23 pm »
Hello, [...].  First and foremost, congratulations on getting to 0.5mg from 2.0mg - that’s a major accomplishment!  If you’d like input from other members on how they have tapered from 0.5mg, you might consider posting to the support group for clonazepam/Klonopin at:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=163449.msg2967314#msg2967314
(The above links to the current last post.)

Members there have devised a variety of strategies (both “dry” and “wet”)  to make small reductions in their dose using a variety of tapering schedules.

For example, if you are in the US, clonazepam [...] available in 0.125mg and 0.25mg orally disintegrating tablets.

Thank you [...]!
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.