May i please have help with a taper plan...

[[Buddie]]

I am going to do the vodka water taper.  I have questions about it. and i want to know the best and slowest way to taper off.  This will be my 2nd taper attempt, still not stabalized, but, cannot get there, even with an updose.  (wish i had not updosed).  i am in tolerance and still trying to fight the cog fog and memory and, i still have anxiety.  the lorazepam is not even touching the anxiety anymore.  i am currently dosing 4 times a day.  I am at 3.50  (i cut .25 about 3 weeks ago).   I dose using 2 pills, and 2 vodka tapers.   ( i am transitioning over to all liquid, but, going slow, so my body can assimilate it, since my brain and cns and body are so ""touchy".     Is it best to add more water to my vodka liquid?  would that help make things smoother for me than this conentrated 20/80   mixture?  please help me, thankyou kindly. 

[[Buddie]]

please, help me, someone??  please.      

[[Buddie]]

can you tell me how much to taper and the doses. i have my vodka, syringe and jar. i want to go slow, as my CNS is touchy.  oh, please help.    and, do i have to crush the tablets before pouring the vodka over them.  and, if i use more water than 80 percent   would it help me have easier time?  thankyou.

[[Buddie]]

I will be glad to help you do a vodka solution.  But first I would like to know more about your experience with the Rx liquid.  Did you dilute it 19:1 with water, so you had a convenient, easy .1mg=1ml solution.

Rx liquid is really the "gold standard" for liquid taper, so before we explore the vodka method, lets try to learn why the Rx liquid didn't seem to work.

[[Buddie]]

Hi, Dear [...].  I will tell you what happened. I crashed on that Intensol and i think i had reaction to the Propylene glycol. (i have allergies to a  lot of stuff).  right now i have sinus infection and don't want to take an antibiotic because they actually mess with my head and brain, believe it or not.      but, i did not dilute the Intensol.  my doc never even told me to. she is not benzo wise, but, none are around here in my little part of Iowa.   and, by the time you told me about diluting it, she had already made me return it to pharmacy and will not prescribe it again.   and, my body seems to have a penchant for Watston Tablets. (even tho they no longer help or relieve anxiety, even after updosing).   Btw,  i have done a cut, 3 weeks ago.  i cut from 3.75 to 3.50 (but, this is still too much for my body, too high a dose).  and, it doesn't even help my anxiety.    i just want off this med.  i have stabalized a little bit, but, not much. and maybe i won't through all my taper.  but, i have to try again.  i pray i won't crash using the vodka, water and tablets.   I have been making a 3 pill solution (conserving pills, till next refill).  i use     5 of the Large syringe of vodka and 2.5 waters of the large syringe for 3 pills, is this ok?    But, i am still scarrd about this solution.  i don't understand how it can work.  but, i will have to trust.  i don't get how those loraz. particles know how to collect themselves and go up my syringe to make the correct MG of med i need.   i just don't get it.     I am dosing 4 times a day.   still taking 1 mg table, 1 mg table,    and, .75  liquid   and .75 liquid. (i am transitioning).    so, sir, if you can help me and ask me any question you like . i am old, been on too long, i am in tolreraancee,  i guess.   and, i would like to know how long it will take before i feel better from Rehab in Feb. (or is that water under the bridge)>   THNKYOU i will wait for your reply.   (sorry, i was so chatty)

[[Buddie]]

If you tried to use the highly concentrated Lorazepam Intensol (2mg per ml), then I'm not surprised you were unsucesseful.  Your doc is not only "not benz-wise", she didn't even read the basic prescribing instructions.

Lorazepam Intensol is a concentrate formulated to be extensively diluted.  It was never intended to be used full strength.  And undiluted, it's really not possible to meter out, measure appropriate doses.  And if you diluted it 19:1, I suspect you would NOT experience any sensitivity to the PG.  I guarantee you that you almost certainly ingest PG from other products every day.

The ratios to make a vodka/water solution is 1mg lorazepam: 2ml vodka : 8ml water.  This gives the .1mg=1ml solution (the same as you would have if you diluted your Rx liquid 19:1) I know your nervous, so here's the portions for about a 1 week supply.

20mg lorazepam tablets + 40ml vodka + 160ml water.  This will give you a finished solution of .1mg=1ml

Only about 1% of your tablet is actually lorazepam.  And it WILL dissolve.  Some of the other 99% will not.  Don't worry about it, it doesn't matter.

The vodka method will work.  But as long as you have access to Rx liquid, that would be my first choice.  I encourage you to try to use the Rx liquid correctly, before you switch to the vodka /water method.

[[Buddie]]

i don't have acceess to the liquid Intensol anymore.  she made me give back to pharamcy.  and i don't know if she will prescribe  it again.  i can ask, but, i doubt it.  and, i am not sure i eveen understand how to do the 39 to 1 thing. i am pretty alone and benzo brained.   i am not not me from 5 years ago.

if i can get it again, will i just dump one bottle into 30 ML of water.  or what do you mean, please.  i will reread your post. but, i probably won't be given another chance at intensol.  i can beg, i guess, i see her in 2 weeks.       

 can you please tell me why we are using sooo much water for 20 pills of Watson Loraz.      and, when i do 10 pills, is this correct:   2 large syringes of vodka and 8 large syringes of water??  or should i be using more water, [...]??   please, i will wait for an answer.   and can you give me a tapering schedule. (bear in mind, i am still destabalized, so, i am doing this while yucky).  (updose didn't help at all, and now stuck at higher dose of 3.50 ) bummer.        may i make jus t10 pills at a time solution?  and it REALLY will work?   will i hopeefully start to feel better as i taper down?  (i HAVE SUCH BAD ANXIEETY and brain bump from Feb rehab).     please, can you write me back with taper schedule?      and, if i can get intensol back, since my body is only used to watson pills, then won't it miss the watson pills and have a cow when i give it Intensol again?

[[Buddie]]

i mean, how does my syringe know it's getting exacly .75 up it?? when i suck the liquid out??  please?   i know about filler, etc. but, how does putting a syringe in a solution of vodka and water and pills guarantee i am getting exactly .75 mg (i think i mg, but use my big syringe to draw 7  and then little syrgine to draw 5. )  but, how do those syringes know to pull exactly .75 mg??  do you know what i mean, please? this is so baffling to me, and i think until i have this answered, i cannot seem to understand and trust the process.   i am sorry i am like that. i want to SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO badly.  i have no choice.     and, i guess my tapeering is going to take about a year.   and, i wondeer if i will have fewer issues as i go down.   can you tell me how fast i should start tapering down?

[[Buddie]]

Lots of questions, but I'll try to cover them all

Regardless of what solution you use, the most convenient concentrations are either .1mg per ml, or .01mg per ml.  .1mg per ml allows you to easily measure down to .01 (hundredth) of a mg, or even .001 (thousandth) of a mg.

The Rx liquid lorazepam is 2mg per ml.  If you add 19 mls water to 1ml, you then have 2mg=20ml, or .1mg per ml.

Measurement in units of "pills" and "syringes" are really meaningless.  Please think milligrams, and milliliters.  Milliliters are the numbers printed on your syringe.

The syringe doesn't know  that its getting "exactly .75", but you do, because you're reading the level in the syringe. And 1) accuracy and precision really are NOT important.  Just use the same devices and procedures each day, and you will be consistent, which is much more important.  So even if its NOT getting "exactly .75", it doesn't matter.

If you are using a true solution (Rx, vodka/water, or PG/water), every millliter will contain exactly the same amount of lorazepam.  If you do a .1mg=1ml solution, every milliliter will contain exactly .1mg of lorazepam.

[[Buddie]]

   but, to my body it matters.  if i need to be taking .75 daily for my dose and it's not .75  every day. and fluctuates up and down in , likee .73. .74 . 78 of lorazepam. my brain and body will notice the difference.  that's what i am trying to explain.  i want each dose to contain exactly what it's supposed to conatain.  (my 2 liquid doses of vodka and wateer and pill  are .75).   how can i guarantee each new dose of that is going to deliver me exactly .75.     and, won't my body react poorly to this if it's not exactly .75 each time?   i thought it was improtant to be prescise in the dose each time and not waver.  because going up in dose causes brain issue, going down, causes problem.     i am sorry i am not making myself more clear.    i just though it was very important to be taking the same dose every time i dose.  when i dose my .75, i expect .75, so does my brain.   it does not want to get .73 or .80 .  that's making it hop all oveer the place. i need consistency in my doses. is this possible with vodka taper, please, and do you understand what i am driving at?       are you saying it's ok, to one day take .75  next day, i use syringe and maybe only pull up .72.  etec. isn't that going to cause a lot of problems.  i want accuracey.   i need .75 daily.  2 dosees, each day. until i can taper down.  and other 2 dosees aree still tablet. i am attempting to trasition to all liquid. but if i am not getting even amounts of drug in my body at dose time, can't that cause a bad problem with WD and my tolerance. ? thankyou.