Symptoms following Liquid taper

[[Buddie]]

1. tablets
2.no
3.full fat milk
4.0
5.liquid till the end
6.yes

[[Buddie]]

Hi

It has been so far a mild success. We have gathered 11 answers. I first thought we might get quickly hundred of replies but I was wrong . I'll wait to obtain at least 20 replies then will make a recap and provide comments. For what they are worth.

Thanks everybody for their feedback.

[[Buddie]]

Bump

[[Buddie]]

Hi everybody,

Lastly I happened to be going through a number of posts where buddies were distressed for one specific reason. It touches a limited number of buddies and it seems by changing from tablets to solution, usually milk, they have felt withdrawal symptoms. As I cannot confirm that those symptoms came from using milk as solvent, it is not excluded that the same problem could have occurred with other liquids used as solvent/suspension too (alcohol, glycol propylene, Ora-Plus, etc...). What made me feel uneasy is that a number of them seemed to feel from the very beginning the same withdrawal effect as when benzo has been abruptly interrupted. Others felt their liquid dose was just not enough compared to when the same dose was taken with tablets. As any taper, Direct or Liquid, is there to alleviate sufferings, it seems to me important to have an answer to that issue and possibly have guidelines to offer to patients a reliable taper approach they can trust.

I here established a short list of questions with the hope that buddies can spend some of their precious time to answer. Their contribution will perhaps permit an insight into the mechanism and help newcomers to tackle their taper with reasonable confidence.

1. Did you use tablets or drops or pharmacy compound solution to prepare your solution? (Tablets / Drops / Pharmacy)
2. Did you experience symptoms changing from (benzo) tablets to solution? (Yes/No)
3. What solvent did you use? (Water, alcohol, juice, milk, ...). If milk, what type?
4. How would you rate the average intensity of these symptoms on a scale of 10 (0: same as with tablets - 10: very strong like with cold turkey)
5. What did you do to address the problem? (Abandon liquid, increase liquid dose, hold, additional medications...)
6. Based on your experience, would you recommend liquid taper to buddies who wish to taper? (Yes/No)

Here is my contribution based on my experience:
1. Drops
2. No
3. Water (to dilute benzo drops)
4. 0
5. Liquid till the end
6. Yes

Many thanks.

Sorry, just given the link..

1, V tablets
2, Yes
3, vodka
4, 7
5, Abandoned, -was at 2v -stable after a small updose and holding... Full C/O
6, Yes, a great resource..  A slow C/O may be needed..?

I suspect my overall sensitivities were my problem, It hit my GI SX (my predominant issue)

Thanks...

[[Buddie]]

1. Did you use tablets or drops or pharmacy compound solution to prepare your solution? (Tablets / Drops / Pharmacy)
I prepared my own solution using the same tablets that I had been prescribed.

2. Did you experience symptoms changing from (benzo) tablets to solution? (Yes/No)
Yes, about two weeks into the change-over, I experienced migraines (that were more intense than usual).
 
3. What solvent did you use? (Water, alcohol, juice, milk, ...). If milk, what type?
Dissolved Xanax in Vodka, then diluted with water.
I tried whole milk for a couple of days and hated the taste!

4. How would you rate the average intensity of these symptoms on a scale of 10 (0: same as with tablets - 10: very strong like with cold turkey)
Migraine intensity was in 7-8 range.

5. What did you do to address the problem? (Abandon liquid, increase liquid dose, hold, additional medications...)
Held dose until I went a week with no migraine.  Took Imitrex as prescribed until I was able to break the cycle.

6. Based on your experience, would you recommend liquid taper to buddies who wish to taper? (Yes/No)
Absolutely yes!

------------

Note: I can't be certain that the migraines were triggered by the tablet-to-liquid change because they continue to be my primary issue.  I have many triggers, (sugar, weather, stress ...) so can't be certain that this time it was triggered by the changeover from tablet to liquid.  (Most likely it was a contributing factor.  I was considerably stressed about my ability to understand and manage the process, but absolutely knew that this was the direction that I wanted to go.)

Also of note: I took a break from my taper over the holidays and switched from my liquid to a partial tablet.  After the holiday season ended, I resumed my liquid taper and had no issues with either transition.

[[Buddie]]

Hi everybody,

Lastly I happened to be going through a number of posts where buddies were distressed for one specific reason. It touches a limited number of buddies and it seems by changing from tablets to solution, usually milk, they have felt withdrawal symptoms. As I cannot confirm that those symptoms came from using milk as solvent, it is not excluded that the same problem could have occurred with other liquids used as solvent/suspension too (alcohol, glycol propylene, Ora-Plus, etc...). What made me feel uneasy is that a number of them seemed to feel from the very beginning the same withdrawal effect as when benzo has been abruptly interrupted. Others felt their liquid dose was just not enough compared to when the same dose was taken with tablets. As any taper, Direct or Liquid, is there to alleviate sufferings, it seems to me important to have an answer to that issue and possibly have guidelines to offer to patients a reliable taper approach they can trust.

I here established a short list of questions with the hope that buddies can spend some of their precious time to answer. Their contribution will perhaps permit an insight into the mechanism and help newcomers to tackle their taper with reasonable confidence.

1. Did you use tablets or drops or pharmacy compound solution to prepare your solution? (Tablets / Drops / Pharmacy)
2. Did you experience symptoms changing from (benzo) tablets to solution? (Yes/No)
3. What solvent did you use? (Water, alcohol, juice, milk, ...). If milk, what type?
4. How would you rate the average intensity of these symptoms on a scale of 10 (0: same as with tablets - 10: very strong like with cold turkey)
5. What did you do to address the problem? (Abandon liquid, increase liquid dose, hold, additional medications...)
6. Based on your experience, would you recommend liquid taper to buddies who wish to taper? (Yes/No)

Here is my contribution based on my experience:
1. Drops
2. No
3. Water (to dilute benzo drops)
4. 0
5. Liquid till the end
6. Yes

Many thanks.

Here's my experience and I'm almost 50% tapered

1) Tablets
2) No
3) Everclear (Vodka)
4) 0
5) Liquid until I'm done with the taper
6) Absolutely!!!

What are drops?
If your ever feeling up to it could you explain your method pleas or point me in u tube direction?
Not sure if pharm liquid will work or if I’ll be able to afford.
 Thank you

[[Buddie]]

This is the million dollar question. I have studied it to death. These are just my feelings /theory. One, when you take a liquid medication it hits you harder, faster, and effects leave faster. This could explain why people experience interdose withdrawal when starting liquid. This could have something to do with the first pass issue, I'm not sure. Also a huge topic that is not seen often on this forum is : ADVERSE EFFECTS. I believe that a lot of us could be mistaking tolerance for adverse effects. After I cold turkeyed my klonopin in August, the ulcers in my eyes went away almost immediately. I looked up adverse effects for benzos and saw ulcers in eyes listed somewhere. So I believe, while I was on tolerance of course because I had cut my dose before I CT, I was having ADVERSE EFFECTS to the klonopin. I think all this has a link, but what I don't know...

I believe this has ALOT of merit as well as mr. eggplant,s comments

[[Buddie]]

Hi [...]

I believe this has ALOT of merit

I agree. 100%.

[[Buddie]]

Two thoughts:

1. Water is not actually a solvent for benzodiazepines. Even Librium, which is supposedly water soluble, seems to need gallons of it to dissolve only a small amount of Librium. (I say seems because different reputable sources give levels of solubility for Librium.) Water can be used to dilute a pharmacy liquid that is already dissolved, though.
2. It would be interesting to also know if people converted their entire dose to liquid all at once or only part of each dose, taking part as tablets/capsules when they started. I converted only one capsule per dose when I started and took the rest as whole capsules.

[[Buddie]]

I tried taking one tablet and using the pharmacy liquid to make the smaller portion of cut in an attempt to head off sx..didn't work