Author Topic: Getting Help for first time using Water Titration  (Read 2039 times)

[Buddie]

Re: Getting Help for first time using Water Titration
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2023, 06:55:41 am »
We just need to know what size pills you have and if you want to taper using percentages or making linear reductions i.e. reducing by a fixed amount per day.

Iím having 0.5mg of Clonazepam. I cut it by 1/4. Itís really hard to cut down anymore. Having a hard time cutting further. By the way Can I ask what method did you use for tapering that way I could use yours by tapering down further?
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[Buddie]

Re: Getting Help for first time using Water Titration
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2023, 08:58:47 am »
Gonna follow your increments probably.
Thank you so much again.  :)
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[Buddie]

Re: Getting Help for first time using Water Titration
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2023, 03:06:30 pm »
Tip of the hat for adding your signature, [...].  This is very helpful.

Clonazepam is a potent benzodiazepine so 0.125mg is still a considerable dose.  Instead of beginning with a 20% reduction per month, you might want to consider a lower percent, say 10% (or less). If all goes well, you could then cautiously increase the percent reduction.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2023, 03:45:12 pm by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Getting Help for first time using Water Titration
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2023, 09:36:27 pm »
I would probably suggest going down the linear route at this stage rather than percentages. The reason I'm saying this is based on your history. You haven't done percentages up to this point so you don't know which percentage works for you. You also haven't kept a journal of your symptoms which will make it difficult to identify when your symptoms are getting worse. It means if you're going percentages you're experimenting to try and find the right one which is working for you, which could take considerable time and by the time you've figured it out, you have to switch to linear anyway.

It doesn't mean linear will be much of a difference because you don't have anything to fall back on either. But instead of trying to figure out what percentage works for you, you slowly go down in increments and if you start feeling worse, you hold until you get better (which you would be doing with percentages as well). It's important to note what [...] has said, that 0.125mg is still very potent, so it should not be underestimated.

I used liquid, so if you're still interested in water, we can help you with water titration?
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Getting Help for first time using Water Titration
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2023, 12:25:52 am »
Tip of the hat for adding your signature, [...].  This is very helpful.

Clonazepam is a potent benzodiazepine so 0.125mg is still a considerable dose.  Instead of beginning with a 20% reduction per month, you might want to consider a lower percent, say 10% (or less). If all goes well, you could then cautiously increase the percent reduction.

Thanks! yeah exactly. I'm on it for short term but still struggling, for sure I will go slow. My withdrawal symptoms is still present as of now and I am holding still at this dosage. I'm kinda tempted in updosing but I'm confused. I don't want to go back.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Getting Help for first time using Water Titration
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2023, 12:32:49 am »
I would probably suggest going down the linear route at this stage rather than percentages. The reason I'm saying this is based on your history. You haven't done percentages up to this point so you don't know which percentage works for you. You also haven't kept a journal of your symptoms which will make it difficult to identify when your symptoms are getting worse. It means if you're going percentages you're experimenting to try and find the right one which is working for you, which could take considerable time and by the time you've figured it out, you have to switch to linear anyway.

It doesn't mean linear will be much of a difference because you don't have anything to fall back on either. But instead of trying to figure out what percentage works for you, you slowly go down in increments and if you start feeling worse, you hold until you get better (which you would be doing with percentages as well). It's important to note what [...] has said, that 0.125mg is still very potent, so it should not be underestimated.

I used liquid, so if you're still interested in water, we can help you with water titration?

I'm still having bad W/D symptoms as of now with this dosage. I'm holding for 12 days now. I'm planning Linear just what you suggested , like 0.001-0.005mg each week?
I definitely appreciate and be glad if you could be help me with the water titration. Does it really needs alcohol to dissolve properly? I'm really confused on what to do.  ???



« Last Edit: February 12, 2023, 12:55:24 am by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Getting Help for first time using Water Titration
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2023, 12:57:24 am »
If you're still very symptomatic from your previous cuts, I would suggest you hold your dose for a couple of weeks until you feel a lot better. If you start tapering and you have not fully and completely recovered from your previous cuts, it can still impact your taper with lingering effects. I had to hold my dose for about 6 weeks to ensure I stabilize before cutting again when my cuts were too big. It's important to know that when you taper your cuts have an accummulation effect and each cut build on the next, so if you don't give enough recovery time, it can all hit you at once when the accummulated cuts are just too much. This can also happen when you do titration or micro tapering.

In my opinion, and this is only my opinion, I think your suggestion of 0.005mg per week is a good starting point. However, I just need to point out and make you aware that as you continue to taper down in this linear fashion, your percentages will keep increasing. It's extremely important that you're aware of this so you can keep monitoring your symptoms and increasing your hold periods if you feel uncomfortable at any stage. I'm going to give you numbers, just so you get the bigger picture (this is based on 2 weeks reductions):

0.125mg > 0.115mg = 8% reduction
0.115mg > 0.105mg = 8.7% reduction
0.105mg > 0.095mg = 9.5% reduction
0.095mg > 0.085mg = 10.5% reduction

As you can see your percentages are getting higher with each 2 week linear reduction. If you do not feel comfortable with this approach, then you should rather stick to percentages and a longer taper. I just need you to fully understand how this works.

Also, if you switch to liquid, it's best to not make a cut, but switch to the equivalent dose first because some people have a reaction to the liquid, so you want to switch without cutting to determine whether your body can tolerate the liquid first.

With titration and home made liquids, we cannot get solutions, we can only make suspensions. What this means is we cannot get the pills to 100% dissolve in any type of liquid and equally mix throughout the liquid. In my understanding you can only get that from commercially manufactured liquids from the drug companies - like liquid Rivotril. It doesn't mean you cannot use liquid titration, it simply means you need to be aware that the pill is probably not dissolved and equally dispersed and take the necessary measurements in your control to manage it - which we'll help you with. You don't have to use alcohol, you can use water only. Some people use a bit of alcohol, some people don't.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Getting Help for first time using Water Titration
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2023, 06:19:15 am »
If you're still very symptomatic from your previous cuts, I would suggest you hold your dose for a couple of weeks until you feel a lot better. If you start tapering and you have not fully and completely recovered from your previous cuts, it can still impact your taper with lingering effects. I had to hold my dose for about 6 weeks to ensure I stabilize before cutting again when my cuts were too big. It's important to know that when you taper your cuts have an accummulation effect and each cut build on the next, so if you don't give enough recovery time, it can all hit you at once when the accummulated cuts are just too much. This can also happen when you do titration or micro tapering.

In my opinion, and this is only my opinion, I think your suggestion of 0.005mg per week is a good starting point. However, I just need to point out and make you aware that as you continue to taper down in this linear fashion, your percentages will keep increasing. It's extremely important that you're aware of this so you can keep monitoring your symptoms and increasing your hold periods if you feel uncomfortable at any stage. I'm going to give you numbers, just so you get the bigger picture (this is based on 2 weeks reductions):

0.125mg > 0.115mg = 8% reduction
0.115mg > 0.105mg = 8.7% reduction
0.105mg > 0.095mg = 9.5% reduction
0.095mg > 0.085mg = 10.5% reduction

As you can see your percentages are getting higher with each 2 week linear reduction. If you do not feel comfortable with this approach, then you should rather stick to percentages and a longer taper. I just need you to fully understand how this works.

Also, if you switch to liquid, it's best to not make a cut, but switch to the equivalent dose first because some people have a reaction to the liquid, so you want to switch without cutting to determine whether your body can tolerate the liquid first.

With titration and home made liquids, we cannot get solutions, we can only make suspensions. What this means is we cannot get the pills to 100% dissolve in any type of liquid and equally mix throughout the liquid. In my understanding you can only get that from commercially manufactured liquids from the drug companies - like liquid Rivotril. It doesn't mean you cannot use liquid titration, it simply means you need to be aware that the pill is probably not dissolved and equally dispersed and take the necessary measurements in your control to manage it - which we'll help you with. You don't have to use alcohol, you can use water only. Some people use a bit of alcohol, some people don't.

Thank you for giving me light! To be clear enough, I'm gonna use my 0.5mg tablet to dissolve in the liquid not the one that I cut in the pill , Right? (Im cutting using tablet cutter the tablet has cut lines to make it to 1/4 does making it to .125mg)
Also I will wait for your suggestions in the measurements and control in managing the titration.
 :)
« Last Edit: February 13, 2023, 06:42:27 am by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Getting Help for first time using Water Titration
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2023, 02:57:35 pm »
Hi [...],

For a liquid taper, the best thing to do is not worry about percentages but instead reduce a tiny amount each day.

For example, let us say you want to finish your taper in 90 days. 

Then do this:

Each morning, put 1/4 pill into 90 mL of water and let it break down.  Then stir or shake vigorously.

Day 1 - remove 1 mL of water and drink the rest
Day 2 - remove 2 mL of water and drink the rest
Day 3 - remove 3 mL of water and drink the rest.
Continue until day 90

If desired, you can first put a few drops of Vodka on the 1/4 pill to help it dissolve before adding the water.

Bob
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[Buddie]

Re: Getting Help for first time using Water Titration
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2023, 07:59:11 pm »
Thanks Bob for helping out with the quantities.

3 months is a bit faster than what we discussed, it's 0.001mg per day. However what you can do, is remove 1ml per day for 5 days and then hold your dose for 2 days without removing anything for 2 days. If you feel the intensity of your symptoms increase at any stage it would also be best to just hold your dose.

Remember we discussed suspensions? After you've swallowed the mixture, you add some more water to the jar/glass and rinse the sides and then swallow it. You do this because the pill doesn't fully dissolve in the water and you want to make sure you get any residue on the sides. Also we recommend you use filtered or bottled water as we don't know what chemicals there are in tap water and how it reacts to the drug.

I hope this helps you get started.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.