Author Topic: Question about liquid titration  (Read 1091 times)

[Buddie]

Re: Question about liquid titration
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2023, 08:41:25 pm »
@[...]: thank you. I have seen this video before. My question is should it be 300ml of water or can it varies according to the type of pill you have? As I said before the 2mg of Ativan/ lorazepam reached zero way before the 300 days are reached.

I am myself confused. For now I will keep to dry cutting. Today I jumped from 2mg to 1,75mg and will keep cutting. Hopefully I will find a way to deal with the small doses. I must confessed that I am nervous.
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[Buddie]

Re: Question about liquid titration
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2023, 09:10:43 pm »
My best guess is there is a flaw in the spreadsheet.

The amount of water you use determines the length of the taper.  If you use 300mL the taper would take 300 days.  If you use 180mL, the taper would take 180 days. HOWEVER, this assumes that all goes well.  As [...] has explained, this assumption is unlikely to be met.  Indeed it is not uncommon for individuals to report that they ‘hit a brick wall’ using this approach.

There are several reasons for this.  One of them is that this approach uses a fixed amount reduction.  Consequently, the taper rate increases over time until it sometimes reaches a ‘tipping point’ where the individual can no longer tolerate it.  For example, if you started with 300mL of water, over the first month, you would decrease the amount of liquid ingested from 300mL to 270mL …  this would be a 10% reduction in dose.  By the fifth month, you would decrease the amount ingested from 180mL to 150mL … this would be a 17% reduction in dose.

The fact that you have experienced issues discontinuing two other benzodiazepine receptor agonists (Valium/diazepam and Imovane/zoplicone) suggests you should be proceed very carefully with tapering lorazepam. 

How did you discontinue the Valium and Imovane?  Did you stop suddenly (i.e. cold turkey) or did you taper?  If you tapered, how did you taper?

How long have you been taking 2mg of lorazepam?  Are you experiencing any signs/symptoms of tolerance?  Interdose withdrawal?  Are you taking any medications or supplements that interact with lorazepam?

I’ll close by sharing one final obsevation about the do-it-yourself water titration approach demonstrated in the video:

The liquid created is a (very temporary) suspension.  This means there is no guarantee that each and every milliliter of the liquid will contain exactly the same amount of drug.  If you try this approach, be sure to shake the liquid vigorously before measuring the reduction amount.  It’s also import to measure the reduction as quickly as possible before the water insoluble particles of drug and excipient(s) settle out of suspension.

ADDENDUM:

Just checking … are you aware of our general guideline to keep reductions in the range of 5 to 10%?  The reduction you just made from 2mg to 1.75mg is a 12.5% reduction. If you have not already done so, I encourage you to read the benzodiazepine deprescribing guidance document below, especially section 3 on tapering principles.

Link:
Benzodiazepine Deprescribing Guidance Document (2022)
https://corxconsortium.org/wp-content/uploads/Benzo-Deprescribing.pdf
« Last Edit: January 02, 2023, 09:50:23 pm by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Question about liquid titration
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2023, 02:02:41 am »
Thanks - got it bookmarked for next time.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Question about liquid titration
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2023, 12:09:45 pm »
@[...]: thank you for the clarification.

The Doctors stopped giving me Imovan and diazepam so it was cold turkey. When I understood that my insomnia was due to that, I went to a pharmacy with the prescription and took them back, but it was too late, when I took them I would sleep only 3 hours per night and then wake up incapable of sleeping, I could not take nap either.

She introduced lorazepam 2,5mg when I was rehospitalized because of the insomnia. After 1 month of good sleep she stopped it again, and after I asked her again she reintroduced the 1 mg ones. The 1mg ones made me sleep but the thing was I would go to bed at 10pm and wouldn't sleep till 1 am or more. I was still hospitalized during all of this. She decided to change again and even gave me 2 imovan to sleep I did not sleep at all and lost conciousness as it was days since I haven't slept well.

A doctor came to my room and asked me on what medication I slept well, I said temesta and theralene (which is a somnifere). This night he gave them to me and I was able to sleep. On 26th November I left the hospital.

I have every month an appointment with a Psychiatrist and it was with her that I started the sevrage, instead of the 2.5mg, she prescribed the 1 mg one, so I can take 2mg. I slept well on the 2mg. Last night I took a leap of faith and reduced to 1.75. I took time to fall asleep but I still slept ok. I know Benzo Buddies only advice to taper off 5 to 10%, but I felt like I could do it. For my next taper I will do 10%.

Have a great day and thanks a lot.

If there are benzo buddies from France, specially Paris and its suburbs please send a pm.

Have a nice day all of you

Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.