How to daily micro taper on 2.5mg valium- brain is lost!

[[Buddie]]

Hey all,

I'm currently on 2.5 mg of valium and working to get off but want to try dmt method rather than cuts and holds to reduce the severity of symptoms. I am also tapering off mirtazapine (currently at 7.5 mg), so will have to deal with at the same time. My psych recently had me go from 2.5 to 2mg and it rocked me and I want avoid that again at all costs. I am awaiting my scale (should arrive this week) and would love advice on how to calculate down with the thought of reducing by .5mg per month.

Thank you

[[Buddie]]

Can you hold your Valium taper until you finish the Mirtazapine, or hold that until you finish tapering and recovering from the Valium, we hate to see you taper two medications at the same time.  Doing this makes it impossible to know what is causing what.  Tapers need to be adjusted to keep us functioning and not knowing which taper is causing issues makes things more complicated.

[[Buddie]]

Hey all,

I'm currently on 2.5 mg of valium and working to get off but want to try dmt method rather than cuts and holds to reduce the severity of symptoms. I am also tapering off mirtazapine (currently at 7.5 mg), so will have to deal with at the same time. My psych recently had me go from 2.5 to 2mg and it rocked me and I want avoid that again at all costs. I am awaiting my scale (should arrive this week) and would love advice on how to calculate down with the thought of reducing by .5mg per month.

Thank you

I plan to do a daily-liquid-titration on my valium.
It is best to start from a stable place.
Is it the maths that you are having trouble with?
If so, I tried to simplify it by taking off 0.25% of my daily dose.
I came to the figure of 0.25, as a daily-cut-percentage, because, for stepped tapers, cuts between 5% and 10% are advised by Professor Ashton in her manual, so I use 7.5% ÷ 30 (days in a month) which is 0.25% of each daily dose.
Each person is different though, so you could start with a tiny "test-cut" of your choosing, to see how you go.

A spiral notebook is handy to keep a daily record of date, cut, yesterday's dose, today's dose, and any comments.

I have never used a scale as I will be wet-cutting.
I would imagine you would weigh the pill and, somehow take off a tiny bit to equal 0.25%, or, whatever percentage you feel is best for you.

I hope someone who has used a scale to come on and tell you a bit more with me, not having tried a scale.

[[Buddie]]

Hi E -

Thanks for your PM - I thought I'd answer here as it's preferred we don't give taper advice via PM.
I have been dry-tapering Valium via a DMT. I go down .01mg of pill weight per day to keep things simple.
So, let's say a 2mg pill weighs .170. The next day, I take .169. then .168. I've been doing it like this for the last 6 months. You need a good pill cutter, a nail file, and a jewelry scale. You also need to weigh your pills to make sure they are roughly the same weight. If you decide to do this, I can offer more support.

As for the mirt, most people wait until they are off the benzo completely (and for several months) before tapering mirt. As you noted in your email, I actually have done extremely small decreases of mirt while I have been tapering my benzo.  I was having some unpleasant side effects from the mirt, so decided to give it a try. It doesn't work for everyone. My sxs have roughly been the same the last 6 months. If they changed drastically, I would absolutely stop tapering the mirt. And I have been going achingly slow.

Everything is in my signature if you're curious about the pace I've gone. It's very specific.

If you want to read more about folks' [...] tapering mirt, there is a board here that is not super active right now but has many many archived pages that would give you a sense of how different folks have approached it. I always like to do a lot of research before I try anything new.

That said, I would highly recommend doing the DMT for the Val taper. It's made a big difference for many of us.

[[Buddie]]

Thank you so much all, you make this much less daunting!!

[[Buddie]]

Thanks for your PM - I thought I'd answer here as it's preferred we don't give taper advice via PM.
I have been dry-tapering Valium via a DMT. I go down .01mg of pill weight per day to keep things simple.
So, let's say a 2mg pill weighs .170. The next day, I take .169. then .168. I've been doing it like this for the last 6 months. You need a good pill cutter, a nail file, and a jewelry scale. You also need to weigh your pills to make sure they are roughly the same weight. If you decide to do this, I can offer more support.

[...]: Thank you for lending a helping hand to [...]! I also appreciate your following forum guidelines regarding the use of PM.  Taper-related advice is best exchanged on the open forum for several reasons (e.g. the member seeking support can get input from multiple members not just one; members can double-check one another’s information/suggestions; members can learn from one another).

Case in point about learning from one another …

I’m working to better understand how our members titrate their benzodiazepines using solid dosage forms.  It sounds like you are using the pill-shaving/weighing technique, but I’m intrigued by your statement that a good pill cutter is needed.  Would you be so kind as to educate me and other interested readers about how you use this tool?  Also, do you have a preferred type and manufacturer of pill cutter?

[[Buddie]]

[...],

I use this one for the diazepam pills:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZQ623WM

I use this one for the mirtazapine pills:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MH6XTL7

Right now, I'm taking less than half of each pill. So I cut it first with the pill cutter, then file it with a metal nail file until I get it to the right weight.

The mirtazapine pills are smaller and harder and need a sharper cutter. But the diazepam pills need a pill cutter with more storage. So this system makes sense to me.

One note: My diazepam pills vary a lot in weight, so I weigh them all when I get the bottle, then put them into pill weight categories, and then taper each pill weight category at a time. It involves a bit of math, so isn't for everyone, but this is the system I have been using.

[[Buddie]]

Thank you for the education, [...]!  This is very helpful.

[[Buddie]]

Thank you open road.
Did you wish you had started the DMT earlier? I am stuck at 15.75mg but now know I need to push on.
Take big care MP

[[Buddie]]

Thanks [...], I've decided to only taper the valium for now to allow myself a buffer with mirtazapine for sleep as my biggest issue has been insomnia (thankfully nearly 100% better due to cbt-i!). What do you do with the shavings if you don't mind me asking?