Checking in, seeking advise on taper procedure

Hello,

I'd like to do a check-up of my taper procedure. If I describe it here, I'd be grateful if some experienced folks can advise if changes need to be made.

I have been doing a symptoms based taper using the alcohol method since June 1st 2018. I started tapering 1.5 mg Klonopin and am currently at .37 mgs. Originally I was dosing 3x a day but now  I dose once, early am. I sleep ok for the first 3-4 hrs and find if i take the K when I wake at 3-4 am it helps me to sleep a couple more hours, otherwise I am awake for the rest of the night. Since I began my taper my rate of reduction has been 4-6% over 14 days. In the last few months I am experiencing increased mental symptoms (SI, depression, anxiety, anhedonia, looping/invasive thoughts, cog fog), and now I am also getting daily headaches, tolerable ear ringing, chest tightness, muscle tightness, sleep problems.  I know it is not uncommon to experience increased/different symptoms as the taper gets lower, but adding to that I am very stressed as my husband is quite ill and is going in for heart surgery next week. Several weeks ago I slowed my taper to 3% every two weeks which has helped to keep my symptoms a bit more tolerable, but going so slow adds to the anxiety because I know my brain can't heal until I'm benzo-free...At this rate I won't be done for 4+ more years...I'll be nearly 70. I do see a therapist who understands what I am going through (she has experienced damage from ADs)....but she doesn't know anything about tapering. I also started seeing a chiropractor. I try to eat healthy, no junk food, limit sugar.

Every two weeks I make up my solution. I use a 0.1 concentration which I learned here.  I cover K tablets with vodka, let sit for 10 mins, add water, shake. (1 mg k:2mL vodka:8mL water). I stir the solution with the syringe before drawing up each of the 14 daily doses which I store in little vials in a dark container in my room (summer temps ~80 degrees day, ac at night and 55-65 degrees in winter.) I have never had spoilage or noticed degradation. I have no trouble drawing up the doses at this point, I use a 5 mL syringe and a 1 cc syringe with 100 increments. I take the dose but do NOT rinse the vial out to get all the fillers.

My questions/concerns:

-I notice many people use the lower 0.01 concentration. What are the pros/cons of a less concentrated liquid?  And do I have to make that switch gradually or can I just change to 0.01 when I make my next batch?

-When I take my dose should I be rinsing out the vial and drinking that rinse to get all the residue? At some point i was told this wasn't necessary when using alcohol as a solvent.

-I do not seem to have interdose withdrawals, so don't think dosing more than once a day would be helpful...but I'm open to opinions on this, since I don’t completely understand about half life.

I sincerely hope this all makes sense and some experienced folks can chime in, I'm always amazed at the kindness and knowledge on these pages.

I'm sorry this is so long...Thank you for reading.

J

Hello,

 

I'd like to do a check-up of my taper procedure. If I describe it here, I'd be grateful if some experienced folks can advise if changes need to be made.

 

I have been doing a symptoms based taper using the alcohol method since June 1st 2018. I started tapering 1.5 mg Klonopin and am currently at .37 mgs. Originally I was dosing 3x a day but now  I dose once, early am. I sleep ok for the first 3-4 hrs and find if i take the K when I wake at 3-4 am it helps me to sleep a couple more hours, otherwise I am awake for the rest of the night. Since I began my taper my rate of reduction has been 4-6% over 14 days. In the last few months I am experiencing increased mental symptoms (SI, depression, anxiety, anhedonia, looping/invasive thoughts, cog fog), and now I am also getting daily headaches, tolerable ear ringing, chest tightness, muscle tightness, sleep problems.  I know it is not uncommon to experience increased/different symptoms as the taper gets lower, but adding to that I am very stressed as my husband is quite ill and is going in for heart surgery next week. Several weeks ago I slowed my taper to 3% every two weeks which has helped to keep my symptoms a bit more tolerable, but going so slow adds to the anxiety because I know my brain can't heal until I'm benzo-free...At this rate I won't be done for 4+ more years...I'll be nearly 70. I do see a therapist who understands what I am going through (she has experienced damage from ADs)....but she doesn't know anything about tapering. I also started seeing a chiropractor. I try to eat healthy, no junk food, limit sugar.

 

Every two weeks I make up my solution. I use a 0.1 concentration which I learned here.  I cover K tablets with vodka, let sit for 10 mins, add water, shake. (1 mg k:2mL vodka:8mL water). I stir the solution with the syringe before drawing up each of the 14 daily doses which I store in little vials in a dark container in my room (summer temps ~80 degrees day, ac at night and 55-65 degrees in winter.) I have never had spoilage or noticed degradation. I have no trouble drawing up the doses at this point, I use a 5 mL syringe and a 1 cc syringe with 100 increments. I take the dose but do NOT rinse the vial out to get all the fillers.

 

My questions/concerns:

-I notice many people use the lower 0.01 concentration. What are the pros/cons of a less concentrated liquid?  And do I have to make that switch gradually or can I just change to 0.01 when I make my next batch?

-When I take my dose should I be rinsing out the vial and drinking that rinse to get all the residue? At some point i was told this wasn't necessary when using alcohol as a solvent.

-I do not seem to have interdose withdrawals, so don't think dosing more than once a day would be helpful...but I'm open to opinions on this, since I don’t completely understand about half life.

 

I sincerely hope this all makes sense and some experienced folks can chime in, I'm always amazed at the kindness and knowledge on these pages.

 

I'm sorry this is so long...Thank you for reading.

 

J

You have done a remarkable job! If symptoms are tolerable I would not change anything. As far as the taper rate goes, taking 4 years to taper from .37mg sounds like a ridiculous amount of time. How are you doing your calculations?

edit spelling

 

My questions/concerns:

-I notice many people use the lower 0.01 concentration. What are the pros/cons of a less concentrated liquid?  And do I have to make that switch gradually or can I just change to 0.01 when I make my next batch?

-When I take my dose should I be rinsing out the vial and drinking that rinse to get all the residue? At some point i was told this wasn't necessary when using alcohol as a solvent.

-I do not seem to have interdose withdrawals, so don't think dosing more than once a day would be helpful...but I'm open to opinions on this, since I don’t completely understand about half life.

 

 

Hello from me,

You are doing really well with your taper. I also question why it would take over 4 years to taper from .37mg.

I would most definitely rinse and drink, rinse and drink from the vial. There is actually no way to know if any residue is left without laboratory testing. The same is true for degradation, we really can't know since our kitchens are not labs.

If you are doing fine dosing once per day, then why change?  Of course, nothing is set in stone. This is your taper and you can make whatever changes are necessary in order to successfully taper off.

pianogirl 

Hello,

 

I'd like to do a check-up of my taper procedure. If I describe it here, I'd be grateful if some experienced folks can advise if changes need to be made.

 

I have been doing a symptoms based taper using the alcohol method since June 1st 2018. I started tapering 1.5 mg Klonopin and am currently at .37 mgs. Originally I was dosing 3x a day but now  I dose once, early am. I sleep ok for the first 3-4 hrs and find if i take the K when I wake at 3-4 am it helps me to sleep a couple more hours, otherwise I am awake for the rest of the night. Since I began my taper my rate of reduction has been 4-6% over 14 days. In the last few months I am experiencing increased mental symptoms (SI, depression, anxiety, anhedonia, looping/invasive thoughts, cog fog), and now I am also getting daily headaches, tolerable ear ringing, chest tightness, muscle tightness, sleep problems.  I know it is not uncommon to experience increased/different symptoms as the taper gets lower, but adding to that I am very stressed as my husband is quite ill and is going in for heart surgery next week. Several weeks ago I slowed my taper to 3% every two weeks which has helped to keep my symptoms a bit more tolerable, but going so slow adds to the anxiety because I know my brain can't heal until I'm benzo-free...At this rate I won't be done for 4+ more years...I'll be nearly 70. I do see a therapist who understands what I am going through (she has experienced damage from ADs)....but she doesn't know anything about tapering. I also started seeing a chiropractor. I try to eat healthy, no junk food, limit sugar.

 

Every two weeks I make up my solution. I use a 0.1 concentration which I learned here.  I cover K tablets with vodka, let sit for 10 mins, add water, shake. (1 mg k:2mL vodka:8mL water). I stir the solution with the syringe before drawing up each of the 14 daily doses which I store in little vials in a dark container in my room (summer temps ~80 degrees day, ac at night and 55-65 degrees in winter.) I have never had spoilage or noticed degradation. I have no trouble drawing up the doses at this point, I use a 5 mL syringe and a 1 cc syringe with 100 increments. I take the dose but do NOT rinse the vial out to get all the fillers.

 

My questions/concerns:

-I notice many people use the lower 0.01 concentration. What are the pros/cons of a less concentrated liquid?  And do I have to make that switch gradually or can I just change to 0.01 when I make my next batch?

-When I take my dose should I be rinsing out the vial and drinking that rinse to get all the residue? At some point i was told this wasn't necessary when using alcohol as a solvent.

-I do not seem to have interdose withdrawals, so don't think dosing more than once a day would be helpful...but I'm open to opinions on this, since I don’t completely understand about half life.

 

I sincerely hope this all makes sense and some experienced folks can chime in, I'm always amazed at the kindness and knowledge on these pages.

 

I'm sorry this is so long...Thank you for reading.

 

J

 

You have do a remarkable job! If symptoms are tolerable I would not change anything. As far as the taper rate goes, taking 4 years to taper from .37mg sounds like a ridiculous amount of time. How are you doing your calculations?

I thank you for your reply and kind words! I have always used the Jim Hawk Benzo taper calculator: http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/  (It has been a life saver!)  However, I did miscalculate the date.

I've cut and pasted the Summary here:

Medication: Name: Clonazepam -

Tablet size: 1 mg -

Planned quit dose: 0.025 mg/day - Suggested quit dose: 0.025 mg/day

Liquid solution: Number of tablets: 1 - Volume of liquid: 10 ml - Concentration: 0.10 mg/ml

Daily doses: Dose 1: .368 mg - Dose 2: 0 mg - Dose 3: 0 mg - Dose 4: 0 mg - Dose 5: 0 mg - Dose 6: 0 mg

Planned reduction: Start date: 18.11.2019 -

Reduction percent: 3 % - Reduction quantity: (N/A) mg - Period: 14 days -

Reduction order: First doses first -

Combine with tablets: No -

Attenuated ending: No

Start date: Monday 18th of November 2019 - End date: Saturday 8th of April 2023 (total 1'237 days or 3 years 4 months 21 days).

(I'm sorry I can't figure out how to just copy the info box from the calculator.)

TY!

 

My questions/concerns:

-I notice many people use the lower 0.01 concentration. What are the pros/cons of a less concentrated liquid?  And do I have to make that switch gradually or can I just change to 0.01 when I make my next batch?

-When I take my dose should I be rinsing out the vial and drinking that rinse to get all the residue? At some point i was told this wasn't necessary when using alcohol as a solvent.

-I do not seem to have interdose withdrawals, so don't think dosing more than once a day would be helpful...but I'm open to opinions on this, since I don’t completely understand about half life.

 

 

 

Hello from me,

 

You are doing really well with your taper. I also question why it would take over 4 years to taper from .37mg.

 

I would most definitely rinse and drink, rinse and drink from the vial. There is actually no way to know if any residue is left without laboratory testing. The same is true for degradation, we really can't know since our kitchens are not labs.

 

If you are doing fine dosing once per day, then why change?  Of course, nothing is set in stone. This is your taper and you can make whatever changes are necessary in order to successfully taper off.

 

pianogirl 

Thank you Pianogirl, I really appreciate your input!  Please see my response to Gudruna re: length of taper.

Hello,

 

I'd like to do a check-up of my taper procedure. If I describe it here, I'd be grateful if some experienced folks can advise if changes need to be made.

 

I have been doing a symptoms based taper using the alcohol method since June 1st 2018. I started tapering 1.5 mg Klonopin and am currently at .37 mgs. Originally I was dosing 3x a day but now  I dose once, early am. I sleep ok for the first 3-4 hrs and find if i take the K when I wake at 3-4 am it helps me to sleep a couple more hours, otherwise I am awake for the rest of the night. Since I began my taper my rate of reduction has been 4-6% over 14 days. In the last few months I am experiencing increased mental symptoms (SI, depression, anxiety, anhedonia, looping/invasive thoughts, cog fog), and now I am also getting daily headaches, tolerable ear ringing, chest tightness, muscle tightness, sleep problems.  I know it is not uncommon to experience increased/different symptoms as the taper gets lower, but adding to that I am very stressed as my husband is quite ill and is going in for heart surgery next week. Several weeks ago I slowed my taper to 3% every two weeks which has helped to keep my symptoms a bit more tolerable, but going so slow adds to the anxiety because I know my brain can't heal until I'm benzo-free...At this rate I won't be done for 4+ more years...I'll be nearly 70. I do see a therapist who understands what I am going through (she has experienced damage from ADs)....but she doesn't know anything about tapering. I also started seeing a chiropractor. I try to eat healthy, no junk food, limit sugar.

 

Every two weeks I make up my solution. I use a 0.1 concentration which I learned here.  I cover K tablets with vodka, let sit for 10 mins, add water, shake. (1 mg k:2mL vodka:8mL water). I stir the solution with the syringe before drawing up each of the 14 daily doses which I store in little vials in a dark container in my room (summer temps ~80 degrees day, ac at night and 55-65 degrees in winter.) I have never had spoilage or noticed degradation. I have no trouble drawing up the doses at this point, I use a 5 mL syringe and a 1 cc syringe with 100 increments. I take the dose but do NOT rinse the vial out to get all the fillers.

 

My questions/concerns:

-I notice many people use the lower 0.01 concentration. What are the pros/cons of a less concentrated liquid?  And do I have to make that switch gradually or can I just change to 0.01 when I make my next batch?

-When I take my dose should I be rinsing out the vial and drinking that rinse to get all the residue? At some point i was told this wasn't necessary when using alcohol as a solvent.

-I do not seem to have interdose withdrawals, so don't think dosing more than once a day would be helpful...but I'm open to opinions on this, since I don’t completely understand about half life.

 

I sincerely hope this all makes sense and some experienced folks can chime in, I'm always amazed at the kindness and knowledge on these pages.

 

I'm sorry this is so long...Thank you for reading.

 

J

 

You have do a remarkable job! If symptoms are tolerable I would not change anything. As far as the taper rate goes, taking 4 years to taper from .37mg sounds like a ridiculous amount of time. How are you doing your calculations?

 

I thank you for your reply and kind words! I have always used the Jim Hawk Benzo taper calculator: http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/  (It has been a life saver!)  However, I did miscalculate the date.

 

I've cut and pasted the Summary here:

Medication: Name: Clonazepam -

Tablet size: 1 mg -

Planned quit dose: 0.025 mg/day - Suggested quit dose: 0.025 mg/day

Liquid solution: Number of tablets: 1 - Volume of liquid: 10 ml - Concentration: 0.10 mg/ml

Daily doses: Dose 1: .368 mg - Dose 2: 0 mg - Dose 3: 0 mg - Dose 4: 0 mg - Dose 5: 0 mg - Dose 6: 0 mg

Planned reduction: Start date: 18.11.2019 -

Reduction percent: 3 % - Reduction quantity: (N/A) mg - Period: 14 days -

Reduction order: First doses first -

Combine with tablets: No -

Attenuated ending: No

Start date: Monday 18th of November 2019 - End date: Saturday 8th of April 2023 (total 1'237 days or 3 years 4 months 21 days).

 

(I'm sorry I can't figure out how to just copy the info box from the calculator.)

 

 

 

 

TY!

Oh, ok, I see, you are using the "%" choice/option box. I would suggest trying this ... Reducing .001mg per day. This will take a little over 11 months. You can always "hold" if symptoms escalate. In my opinion this is a more reasonable taper. For some of us symptoms are inevitable. Give this some consideration. Ultimately the goal is to get off benzo in a safe, comfortable manner. Do what is most comfortable for you

Oh, ok, I see, you are using the "%" choice/option box. I would suggest trying this ... Reducing .001mg per day. This will take a little over 11 months. You can always "hold" if symptoms escalate. In my opinion this is a more reasonable taper. For some of us symptoms are inevitable. Give this some consideration. Ultimately the goal is to get off benzo in a safe, comfortable manner. Do what is most comfortable for you

Thank you. This makes sense.