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Hi.

 

I've just added a cautionary notice which attempts to place titration within sensible boundaries and what is reasonably achievable. I should also like you to know that we will soon publish something more substantive about the actual process of creating a titration schedule. But right now, we think it more important to inject some balance about what are realistic expectations. But please let us know what you think.

 

Titration: Limits & Limitations

 

To aid suggested edits, below, a copy of the draft document:


 

Titration: Limits & Limitations

 

 

We wish to emphasize the following points about titration of benzodiazepines.

 

[*]A dogged zeal for an unproven method, promoted (by some) in absolute terms, is diametrically opposed to:

 

[*]BenzoBuddies' general guidance for employing non-prescriptive language

 

 

[*]Our non-expert, peer-support model.

 

 

[*]The various "recipes" for preparing "home-brew" liquids are based on questionable evidence. Significantly:

 

[*]The liquids (and powders) produced using these recipes have not been tested for safety, efficacy, potency, stability, pharmacokinetic or pharmacodynamic properties for any of the different benzodiazepines

 

 

[*]Some members have been able to taper successfully using home-brew liquids. Other members have not.

 

 

[*]Even if we suppose that a perfect titration method and technique are achievable, there are larger variations to dose outside of our control:

 

[*]Individual benzodiazepine tablets (used to make our powder or liquid) likely vary by a few percent (or more) from their stated dose

 

 

[*]Blood levels of benzodiazepine drop between doses, probably by at least 10%, but often 20%, 30% or even 50% and more.

 

 

Fixation with attempts to achieve titrated doses to an accuracy of 0.1% to 1% of target dose become meaningless in light of much larger (unavoidable) variations to dose. When utilizing titration, zoom out, not in; look at the bigger picture.

 

 

[*]Common misconceptions include:

 

[*]The only way to titrate one's dose is to use a liquid

 

 

[*]Making minute reductions in dose on a daily basis is the "best tapering schedule".

 

In reality, there are many ways to titrate one's dose, including both 'wet' and 'dry' options. There are also many different options for tapering schedules.

 

 

Please read our FAQs for further pointers about selecting a titration method and schedule to suit your needs.

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I kind of don't see the utility of this post, except as a strong rebuke to certain members' over-enthusiasm for this method of tapering. I tried to come up with some (I hope) useful edits, but I couldn't come up with much. Strikeouts are recommended deletions, underlined is additions. I don't remember how to use the [nobbc]

  • [/nobbc] command so I didn't use it.

 

Titration: Limits & Limitations

 

 

We wish to emphasize the following points about titration of benzodiazepines.

 

A dogged zeal for an unproven method, promoted (by some) in absolute terms, is diametrically opposed to:

 

BenzoBuddies' general guidance for employing non-prescriptive language

 

Our non-expert, peer-support model.

 

The various "recipes" for preparing "home-brew" liquids are not based on questionable published evidence. Significantly:

 

The liquids (and powders) produced using these recipes have not been tested for safety, efficacy, potency, stability, pharmacokinetic or pharmacodynamic properties for any of the different benzodiazepines.

 

This means that your home brewed solution may not have the same effect on you as taking pills. The liquid may feel like a stronger dose, or it may feel like a weaker dose. The liquid dose may feel like it doesn't last as long as taking a pill.

 

The stability of the drug in the solution you make is also unknown. The amount of drug in your solution may degrade over time.

 

Some members have been able to taper successfully using home-brew liquids. Other members have not.

 

Even if we suppose a perfect titration method and technique are achievable, there are larger variations to dose outside of our control:

 

Individual benzodiazepine tablets (used to make our powder or liquid) likely vary by a few percent (or more) from their stated dose

 

Blood levels of benzodiazepine drop between doses, probably by at least 10%, but often 20%, 30% or even 50% and more.

 

Fixation with attempts to achieve titrated doses to an accuracy of 0.1% to 1% of target dose become meaningless in light of much larger (unavoidable) variations to dose. When utilizing titration, zoom out, not in; look at the bigger picture.

 

Common misconceptions include:

 

The only way to titrate one's dose is to use a liquid

 

Making minute reductions in dose on a daily basis is the "best tapering schedule".

 

In reality, there are many ways to titrate one's dose, including both 'wet' and 'dry' options. There are also many different options for tapering schedules.

 

Please read our FAQs for further pointers about selecting a titration method and schedule to suit your needs.

 

Edit: fixed display of (parsed/hidden) 'list' tag using 'nobbc' (NO Bulleting Board Code) tags. (Click quote to see what I did).

~Colin.

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same here, i like the changes, might add something about the liquid or other forms as well as the pills can be differently metabolized. (just learning about this "poor metabolizer" vs "ultra metabolizer" stuff and am probably the former. it can make a person feel the effects of a medicine as very little or all at once , with very few if any sxs or all of the listed side efects and more.) this is regardless of the pill, liquid, powder etc form it is taken in, but can be compounded by the manner in which it is prepared and taken.

 

additionally, my personal opinion is that rule breakers after the initial warning should just be banned from posting. they lead so many people to dangerous ideas/results with their tapers that, in my opinion, they are more of a risk/liability than any "benefit?" that warrants their being left to continue breaking the rules.  there's so many visitors to this site who never become part of the posting community, but just read enough til they find "so n so's expert advice" and then they take that and never come back. what happens to them? what happens to us?

 

it reminds me of an elderly dr i had once, a psychiatrist, who was sadly and alarmingly in dementia. his wife and daughter in law were the RN's who covered up his condition and tried to keep his practice going. a number of reviewers on all the online dr checkup sits i looked at reported the same thing i experienced while his patient. he finally quit and died. i have had other elderly dr's who were not the same dangerous case suchas he was so please don't call me agist. but having said that, he was too damn old to be practicing his field anymore and he made dangerous mistakes with a lot of people who trusted his once sage advice. i hope my analogy makes sense in this context.

 

ps i finally found a new psychiatrist after "Dr. OldMan" and consider myself one of the lucky ones. (altho he DID misdx me with ADD after i filled out a 1 page quiz with 18 questions on it and put me on methamphetamines.)

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Hi HTDT,

 

You are along the right track about the reasons for the notice, but it is actually a wider, deeper problem. For now, our concern is to add some much needed balance. But as I indicated, we soon will be publishing more constructive information; how-to's - that kind of thing.

 

I should also like you to know that we will soon publish something more substantive about the actual process of creating a titration schedule.

 

I actually have a fair bit to say about a particular set of protocols as a panacea and as though there is anything novel about them. But since your intention was to raise legitimate questions and provide suggestions for improvements for the actual notice (and since I wish to keep this thread more tidy than previous thread requesting feedback), I will address those concerns in a new thread.

 

To aid discussion, I'll follow up later with a bulleted version of the changes you suggested.

 

Thanks.

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Hi HTDT,

 

You are along the right track about the reasons for the notice, but it is actually a wider, deeper problem. For now, our concern is to add some much needed balance. But as I indicated, we soon will be publishing more constructive information; how-to's - that kind of thing.

 

I should also like you to know that we will soon publish something more substantive about the actual process of creating a titration schedule.

 

I actually have a fair bit to say about a particular set of protocols as a panacea and as though there is anything novel about them. But since your intention was to raise legitimate questions and provide suggestions for improvements for the actual notice (and since I wish to keep this thread more tidy than previous thread requesting feedback), I will address those concerns in a new thread.

 

To aid discussion, I'll follow up later with a bulleted version of the changes you suggested.

 

Thanks.

 

cool! i look forward to seeing what you guys came up with and also in another thread your protocols/titration/ etc stuff!

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Hi HTDT. Like this?

 


 

Titration: Limits & Limitations

 

 

We wish to emphasize the following points about titration of benzodiazepines.

 

[*]A dogged zeal for an unproven method, promoted (by some) in absolute terms, is diametrically opposed to:

 

[*]BenzoBuddies' general guidance for employing non-prescriptive language

 

 

[*]Our non-expert, peer-support model.

 

 

[*]The various "recipes" for preparing "home-brew" liquids are not based on published evidence. Significantly:

 

[*]The liquids (and powders) produced using these recipes have not been tested for safety, efficacy, potency, stability, pharmacokinetic or pharmacodynamic properties for any of the different benzodiazepines.

 

This means that your home brewed solution may not have the same effect on you as taking pills. The liquid may feel like a stronger dose, or it may feel like a weaker dose. The liquid dose may feel like it doesn't last as long as taking a pill.

 

The stability of the drug in the solution you make is also unknown. The amount of drug in your solution may degrade over time.

 

 

[*]Some members have been able to taper successfully using home-brew liquids. Other members have not.

 

 

[*]Even if we suppose a perfect titraion method and technique are achievable, there are larger variations to dose outside of our control:

 

[*]Individual benzodiazepine tablets (used to make our powder or liquid) likely vary by a few percent (or more) from their stated dose

 

 

[*]Blood levels of benzodiazepine drop between doses, probably by at least 10%, but often 20%, 30% or even 50% and more.

 

 

Fixation with attempts to achieve titrated doses to an accuracy of 0.1% to 1% of target dose become meaningless in light of much larger (unavoidable) variations to dose. When utilizing titration, zoom out, not in; look at the bigger picture.

 

 

[*]Common misconceptions include:

 

[*]The only way to titrate one's dose is to use a liquid

 

 

[*]Making minute reductions in dose on a daily basis is the "best tapering schedule".

 

In reality, there are many ways to titrate one's dose, including both 'wet' and 'dry' options. There are also many different options for tapering schedules.

 

 

Please read our FAQs for further pointers about selecting a titration method and schedule to suit your needs.

 


 

Did you mean for the additional paragraphs to be separate bullet points?

 

My first take on this is that the two small edits might be preferable to my original. But you additional two sentences/paragraphs/bullets do not add anything significant to meaning. They largely repeats what in the bullet point above:

 

[*]The liquids (and powders) produced using these recipes have not been tested for safety, efficacy, potency, stability, pharmacokinetic or pharmacodynamic properties for any of the different benzodiazepines

 

However, what your suggestions do offer is more plain text explanations, which I assume is your intention. I am not closed to this. However, I wish to keep this advisory as succinct as possible. What I'd like to do is link out to fuller texts and explanations. Or, I could convert the list from forum Bulletin Board Code into HTML, and use hover points for explanations (place your cursor over the technical words - an explanation will pop up). I am not sure if that is entirely possible within this forum software, but I'll check.

 

There are a couple of others who who contributed this - I'll checks to see what they think. And let me know how you intended the additional text to be formatted.

 

Thanks, HopeToDoThis.

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It's the end of the day for me, so forgive my curt response. I am so ready for bed.

 

Yes, my additional paragraphs were meant as a plain text explanation for the "safety, efficacy, purity, stability, pharmacokinetics, and pharmacodynamics" because those are a lot of words with very specific definitions that many people - especially people whose native language is not English - may not understand. I don't mean to say that people may not be smart enough. More like, someone who's just tried to cut their dose too much and are trying to figure out what the hell is happening to them and how can they come off this drug and they find benzobuddies (it's how I found this board) and they see this post and OH MY GOD THAT'S A LOT OF WORDS and...

 

So I thought a gentler explanation might be useful.

 

I was originally thinking my additional paragraphs should be bulleted, but it looks good keeping it under the same heading as the first paragraph. It also sets off the next paragraph very nicely, "Some members have been able to taper successfully using home-brew liquids. Other members have not." I think that is a very important message.

 

I was going to add a lot more about how liquid forms (from a compounding pharmacy or manufacturer) have not been shown to be equivalent to tablets blah blah blah (at least as far as I could find from package labeling or a google search), but you're right. It should be a simple message.

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How about using vodka during DLMT? Isn't it dangerous for some people? Shouldn't they be warned? Alcohol potentiates the effect of benzodiazepines. Also acts on the GABA receptors. It additionally has a euphorizing effect. The BZD that mostly resembles alcohol is Xanax.

 

First thing my addiction pdoc did in 2002 was to tell me: no alcohol whatsoever. Then I spent the following 16 yrs (since 2003) in the AA Community. Not being an alcoholic myself. I just found the AA Program helpful. I stopped drinking in 2002. Although I had never abused alcohol. I think so.

 

So many people in AA just added the BZD cause they reached tolerance to alcohol.

 

If someone has a genetic predisposition to alcohol abuse, then this particular DLMT method could be dangerous. I witnessed too many alcohol-related deaths during all those years. I feel it is my duty to mention the problem.

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How about using vodka during DLMT? Isn't it dangerous for some people? Shouldn't they be warned? Alcohol potentiates the effect of benzodiazepines. Also acts on the GABA receptors. It additionally has a euphorizing effect. The BZD that mostly resembles alcohol is Xanax.

 

First thing my addiction pdoc did in 2002 was to tell me: no alcohol whatsoever. Then I spent the following 16 yrs (since 2003) in the AA Community. Not being an alcoholic myself. I just found the AA Program helpful. I stopped drinking in 2002. Although I had never abused alcohol. I think so.

 

So many people in AA just added the BZD cause they reached tolerance to alcohol.

 

If someone has a genetic predisposition to alcohol abuse, then this particular DLMT method could be dangerous. I witnessed too many alcohol-related deaths during all those years. I feel it is my duty to mention the problem.

 

these are valid points!

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I may be way off base here, being one of those (few apparently) people who the "vodka method" helped get off my benzo, but are we really going to obsess over the 1 ml (that's what I used) of vodka used to dissolve my valium tablet when the active ingredients of the Diazepam Oral solution are listed as these:

 

Each 5 mL of Oral Solution contains:

Diazepam........................................5 mg

Each mL of IntensolTM Oral Solution (Concentrate) contains:

Diazepam........................................5 mg

Alcohol............................................19%

 

I guess I need help in understanding how the alcohol in the Oral solution is not a problem, but the 1 ml of alcohol I used is a problem.

 

Is the issue alcohol or the crudeness of the home brew method? (Yeah, I admit it is/was crude). I always wondered why people who aver that no drop of alcohol can pass their lips are okay with the alcohol content of the Oral Solution.

 

I'm not trying to pick a fight . . . just trying to understand the new guidelines on here. I fear the "vodka method" will be retired as . . . inappropriate? ineffective? dangerous? It saved my life. I was at the end of my rope with trying reduction methods that did not work for me, made me ill, or were mathematically too challenging. I will be very disappointed if it is "dropped" in the new titration guidelines.

 

:-\

 

Katz

 

 

 

 

 

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People who have a problem with alcohol should use their judgement on whether to use it. The other alternative is Propylene Glycol. I use it and it works fine. I don't have a problem with alcohol abuse, but have peptic ulcer disease and it burns my gut.
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I may be way off base here, being one of those (few apparently) people who the "vodka method" helped get off my benzo, but are we really going to obsess over the 1 ml (that's what I used) of vodka used to dissolve my valium tablet when the active ingredients of the Diazepam Oral solution are listed as these:

 

Each 5 mL of Oral Solution contains:

Diazepam........................................5 mg

Each mL of IntensolTM Oral Solution (Concentrate) contains:

Diazepam........................................5 mg

Alcohol............................................19%

 

I guess I need help in understanding how the alcohol in the Oral solution is not a problem, but the 1 ml of alcohol I used is a problem.

 

Is the issue alcohol or the crudeness of the home brew method? (Yeah, I admit it is/was crude). I always wondered why people who aver that no drop of alcohol can pass their lips are okay with the alcohol content of the Oral Solution.

 

I'm not trying to pick a fight . . . just trying to understand the new guidelines on here. I fear the "vodka method" will be retired as . . . inappropriate? ineffective? dangerous? It saved my life. I was at the end of my rope with trying reduction methods that did not work for me, made me ill, or were mathematically too challenging. I will be very disappointed if it is "dropped" in the new titration guidelines.

 

:-\

 

Katz

 

I agree. There are people who it has been a lifesaver in their taper. I would be using, but as I stated, it burns my sensitive stomach.

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i use the liquid taper method, so I'm all for it. I don't use the 1 + 2 + 8 method. That sounds like a messy mixture. Mine is much more dilute (5 days worth benzo + 25 mL vodka + 475 mL water). I am not worried about the alcohol at all. My mixture seems to be working for me. I had a setback, but I don't blame it on the liquid.

 

Honestly when I first read the draft I thought it was very down on the liquid taper route. But I think the real point is, it works for some people, it doesn't work for others. And don't let someone tell you what you're feeling isn't real.

 

I'm hoping more of the details like the use of alcohol (which can be substituted from what I've read on these boards) will be contained in a later post promised by Colin's statement

 

I should also like you to know that we will soon publish something more substantive about the actual process of creating a titration schedule.

 

(Language geek here: note the use of the British "should" whereas Americans would say "would" in this context.)

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I'm not in the US. In my country, every liquid medication containing ethanol has a warning.

 

Something like this.

 

I also found article about the study published in The Lancet.

 

I don't feel like I can participate in this anymore. I'm afraid there could be some individuals on this site for whom the main problem are not even the BZD. It is alcohol.

 

 

 

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Hi Colin,

 

Again thank you for your hard work.  I would like to suggest a more simple, concise and easy to read approach for new (and old) members who might be reading.  Thanks for considering my ideas.  Luey

 

Titration Considerations and Limitations

 

Please consider the following concerns before beginning and/or recommending a titration taper method.

 

1. Currently there is a lack of empirical evidence for titrating benzodiazepines, thus we can not absolutely recommend titration over other methods.

 

2. Because titration results can not be guaranteed, we request our members use non-prescriptive language and a non-expert, peer support model when discussing titration.  The same guidelines for all other topics on the forum apply to discussions about titration. 

 

Similarly we request members to not be overzealous in recommending titration over other methods. It’s important to remember titration may work well for many individuals while others have reported difficulties.

 

3. The potency and stability of homemade solutions can not be guaranteed. The evidence we have at this time for the efficacy of titration is based on anecdotal evidence versus results from replicated studies.

 

4. Even if we suppose a perfect titration method and technique are achievable, there are variables outside of our control:

 

    a. Individual benzodiazepine tablets used to make powder or liquid likely vary by a few percent or more from their stated dose.

 

    b. Blood levels of benzodiazepines can drop between doses, probably by at least 10%, but possibly by 20% to 30% or even as high as 50% or more.

 

5. Too many variables affect the likelihood of achieving an accuracy of 0.1% to 1% of a targeted dose.

 

6. There are many different ways to titrate one’s dose including both liquid and dry options.  There are also many different options for tapering schedules.  Titrating is a highly individualized process.  It is not possible to give a simple recipe that will work for everyone.

 

*Please read our FAQs for further pointers about selecting a titration method and schedule to suit your needs.

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People who have a problem with alcohol should use their judgement on whether to use it. The other alternative is Propylene Glycol. I use it and it works fine. I don't have a problem with alcohol abuse, but have peptic ulcer disease and it burns my gut.

 

i got ulcers in my stomach when i tapered too rapidly off of clonazepam under a psychdoc's "supervision" in 2010!  she didn't believe me so i had a gastroenterologist run a camera down my throat and take pictures of them and biopsy them. i got put right back on the benzos. when i switched to liquid titration per one members' instructions here using the alcohol solvent and had (much to my surprise) a bad reaction to it, i switched to PG solvent as well. time will tell if i do ok or switch to another method. but i was educated the hard way that some people can tolerate one method while others cannot. some people are poor or even ultra metabolizers. that this tapering thing is indeed varied and individual. and that there is no one best way to do it for everyone. live and learn eh?

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How about using vodka during DLMT? Isn't it dangerous for some people? Shouldn't they be warned? Alcohol potentiates the effect of benzodiazepines. Also acts on the GABA receptors. It additionally has a euphorizing effect. The BZD that mostly resembles alcohol is Xanax.

 

First thing my addiction pdoc did in 2002 was to tell me: no alcohol whatsoever. Then I spent the following 16 yrs (since 2003) in the AA Community. Not being an alcoholic myself. I just found the AA Program helpful. I stopped drinking in 2002. Although I had never abused alcohol. I think so.

 

So many people in AA just added the BZD cause they reached tolerance to alcohol.

 

If someone has a genetic predisposition to alcohol abuse, then this particular DLMT method could be dangerous. I witnessed too many alcohol-related deaths during all those years. I feel it is my duty to mention the problem.

 

Absolutely, they are valid points. Of course, those are greater considerations for some than others. I expect that we will make mention of them.

 

I'm not in the US. In my country, every liquid medication containing ethanol has a warning.

 

Something like this.

 

I also found article about the study published in The Lancet.

 

I don't feel like I can participate in this anymore. I'm afraid there could be lots of individuals on this site for whom the main problem are not even the BZD. It is alcohol.

 

There are some members for whom alcohol is a problem. I think though, on the whole, members are pretty straight-up about it. But, of course, a few will be in denial. But, this is a societal / general population issue - it is not specific to BB membership. Having said that, there is the potential for a small number of members who are actually alcoholic, but who have not yet come to that conclusion. So, maybe we can try wording advise about titration using alcohol is such a way so that even if they only suspect there is an issue with alcohol, they might wish to choose another method.

 

I do wish to clear though, I don't I agree with your last comment. It sounds too accusatory; and certainly there is no reason to expect that 'lots' of members fall into this category.

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I may be way off base here, being one of those (few apparently) people who the "vodka method" helped get off my benzo, but are we really going to obsess over the 1 ml (that's what I used) of vodka used to dissolve my valium tablet when the active ingredients of the Diazepam Oral solution are listed as these:

 

Each 5 mL of Oral Solution contains:

Diazepam........................................5 mg

Each mL of IntensolTM Oral Solution (Concentrate) contains:

Diazepam........................................5 mg

Alcohol............................................19%

 

I guess I need help in understanding how the alcohol in the Oral solution is not a problem, but the 1 ml of alcohol I used is a problem.

 

Is the issue alcohol or the crudeness of the home brew method? (Yeah, I admit it is/was crude). I always wondered why people who aver that no drop of alcohol can pass their lips are okay with the alcohol content of the Oral Solution.

 

I'm not trying to pick a fight . . . just trying to understand the new guidelines on here. I fear the "vodka method" will be retired as . . . inappropriate? ineffective? dangerous? It saved my life. I was at the end of my rope with trying reduction methods that did not work for me, made me ill, or were mathematically too challenging. I will be very disappointed if it is "dropped" in the new titration guidelines.

 

:-\

 

Katz

 

That would be a valid point, except that for any hope of alcohol acting as a reliable solvent, the evidence suggests that it probably needs to be in a relatively high proportion to the total volume of liquid. Otherwise, why not just use water? Builder has suggested that adding water later does not affect solubility, but there is no actual data confirming this.

 

But none of this actually stops people from using alcohol or from the method being described here. But, the caveats do need to be stated and members understand that 'their mileage may vary'. As I see it, the main problem with titration has been the language utilised to describe it. There are positives and negatives with all three methods of titraion: direct (pill-splitting); substitution (usually with Valium/diazepam); and titration.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=9522.0

 

Although the above advice needs improving, and adapting for the changes we are bringing in here, the underlying information holds true.

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Hi Colin,

 

Again thank you for your hard work.  I would like to suggest a more simple, concise and easy to read approach for new (and old) members who might be reading.  Thanks for considering my ideas.  Luey

 

Titration Considerations and Limitations

 

Please consider the following concerns before beginning and/or recommending a titration taper method.

 

1. Currently there is a lack of empirical evidence for titrating benzodiazepines, thus we can not absolutely recommend titration over other methods.

 

2. Because titration results can not be guaranteed, we request our members use non-prescriptive language and a non-expert, peer support model when discussing titration.  The same guidelines for all other topics on the forum apply to discussions about titration. 

 

Similarly we request members to not be overzealous in recommending titration over other methods. It’s important to remember titration may work well for many individuals while others have reported difficulties.

 

3. The potency and stability of homemade solutions can not be guaranteed. The evidence we have at this time for the efficacy of titration is based on anecdotal evidence versus results from replicated studies.

 

4. Even if we suppose a perfect titration method and technique are achievable, there are variables outside of our control:

 

    a. Individual benzodiazepine tablets used to make powder or liquid likely vary by a few percent or more from their stated dose.

 

    b. Blood levels of benzodiazepines can drop between doses, probably by at least 10%, but possibly by 20% to 30% or even as high as 50% or more.

 

5. Too many variables affect the likelihood of achieving an accuracy of 0.1% to 1% of a targeted dose.

 

6. There are many different ways to titrate one’s dose including both liquid and dry options.  There are also many different options for tapering schedules.  Titrating is a highly individualized process.  It is not possible to give a simple recipe that will work for everyone.

 

*Please read our FAQs for further pointers about selecting a titration method and schedule to suit your needs.

 

Although I am less enthused by having the points less grouped, we can certainly look at taming some of the more  potentially provocative language.

 

I will look at you suggestions in more detail and more carefully later.

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i use the liquid taper method, so I'm all for it. I don't use the 1 + 2 + 8 method. That sounds like a messy mixture. Mine is much more dilute (5 days worth benzo + 25 mL vodka + 475 mL water). I am not worried about the alcohol at all. My mixture seems to be working for me. I had a setback, but I don't blame it on the liquid.

 

Honestly when I first read the draft I thought it was very down on the liquid taper route. But I think the real point is, it works for some people, it doesn't work for others. And don't let someone tell you what you're feeling isn't real.

 

I'm hoping more of the details like the use of alcohol (which can be substituted from what I've read on these boards) will be contained in a later post promised by Colin's statement

 

I should also like you to know that we will soon publish something more substantive about the actual process of creating a titration schedule.

 

(Language geek here: note the use of the British "should" whereas Americans would say "would" in this context.)

 

All that. Thanks, HTDT.

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How about using vodka during DLMT? Isn't it dangerous for some people? Shouldn't they be warned? Alcohol potentiates the effect of benzodiazepines. Also acts on the GABA receptors. It additionally has a euphorizing effect. The BZD that mostly resembles alcohol is Xanax.

 

First thing my addiction pdoc did in 2002 was to tell me: no alcohol whatsoever. Then I spent the following 16 yrs (since 2003) in the AA Community. Not being an alcoholic myself. I just found the AA Program helpful. I stopped drinking in 2002. Although I had never abused alcohol. I think so.

 

So many people in AA just added the BZD cause they reached tolerance to alcohol.

 

If someone has a genetic predisposition to alcohol abuse, then this particular DLMT method could be dangerous. I witnessed too many alcohol-related deaths during all those years. I feel it is my duty to mention the problem.

 

Absolutely, they are valid points. Of course, those are greater considerations for some than others. I expect that we will make mention of them.

 

I'm not in the US. In my country, every liquid medication containing ethanol has a warning.

 

Something like this.

 

I also found article about the study published in The Lancet.

 

I don't feel like I can participate in this anymore. I'm afraid there could be lots of individuals on this site for whom the main problem are not even the BZD. It is alcohol.

 

There are some members for whom alcohol is a problem. I think though, on the whole, members are pretty straight-up about it. But, of course, a few will be in denial. But, this is a societal / general population issue - it is not specific to BB membership. Having said that, there is the potential for a small number of members who are actually alcoholic, but who have not yet come to that conclusion. So, maybe we can try wording advise about titration using alcohol is such a way so that even if they only suspect there is an issue with alcohol, they might wish to choose another method.

 

I do wish to clear though, I don't I agree with your last comment. It sounds too accusatory; and certainly there is no reason to expect that 'lots' of members fall into this category.

 

I edited the comment. Replaced "lots" with "some". I apologize. I have no idea about the stats. I was tired when I wrote it. This is an emotional topic for me. Yes, denial can be a problem here.

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