Halfway through Klonopin taper: Need advice on low-dose Klonopin taper

Hi there !  I hope you're all doing well!  I need some feedback on my current Klonopin taper and wanted to ask my benzobuddies who have tapered/are currently tapering off Klonopin for some advice.

 

I'm now ~ half-way through my Klonopin taper.  Following a failed cold-turkey in Feb,  I started at 0.250 mg in April and I've been cutting by 0.0125mg ~ every 3 weeks.  I've just gotten to 0.125mg and my symptoms have been pretty manageable - some jitteriness/nausea, but nothing too terrible.  I am lucky to live close to a compounding pharmacy, so I have a Klonopin suspension made for me every 6 weeks that is 0.025 mg/mL and I've been cutting the volume by 1/2 mL every 3 weeks.  My psych is following my treatment, but doesn't have a lot of experience with tapering off K.

 

When I started my taper, my cut was 5% of the intial dose, every 3 weeks.  Now, that same cut (0.0125 mg) is equivalent to 10% of my current dose.  Should I consider reducing the amount I cut by, or increasing the intervals between cuts as I go further down in dosage? 

 

If any of you are wiling to share your low-dose Klonopin taper schedules that have worked for you, that would be very helpful, indeed

 

Also, what is a good dosage to jump off at?

 

Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.  I also wanted to share encouragement with those of you who are just starting their tapers.  It IS do-able...just take it really slow and hang in there

 

Thanks guys!

Great to hear your taper seems to be going well.  I think any reduction and slowing will make symptoms decrease and allow you to heal as you taper, but if you are doing well enough then you are.  It is that simple.  Your body is the best measure.

 

I also think it is true that the way you feel when you reach zero is the way you will feel for a very long time, so getting there in good shape is important.  I think tapering all the way to zero is best if possible.

 

Best 

Hi Cloudy B,

 

I am so proud of you for doing such a careful taper and learning as you go about all of this. I tapered to 0.015625mg of Klonopin, as suggested by Ashton. I did not have an easy taper, but I was also tapering 3mg of Lunesta and 5mg of Klonopin. I began my taper by dry cutting. I wanted to come off of the drug my body was already use to and did not know about titrating. Once I learned about titrating, I had become more comfortable about doing my own dose reductions by dry cutting and had become familiar with what to expect after doing a dose reduction. So I stuck with that.

 

My experience only includes dry cutting. I will post my taper plan, in case it is helpful, but the plan you are on with your compounding pharmacy sounds like it is going well and changing that may not be the best idea. I have seen Buddies go from dry cutting, to titrating, then back to dry cutting and it didnt't work for them to go back to dry cutting. They finished their taper by titrating. Our bodies seem to become accustom to how ever we are tapering. I have seen members go from dry cutting to titrating and do well and prefer the titrating or liquid, like you are doing.

 

I will still post my taper plan in case there is some information in there that may be helpful.

 

I am very proud of you for all the research and looking into this you have done. I wasn't so lucky. I had to learn much of this on my own by reading, "Your Drug May Be Your Problem" by Peter Breggin and Ashton. Mainly those 2 regarding the taper, along with my own experience. I have read much more than that about all of these drugs in addition.

 

You are doing great!

 

Bye For Now,

Summer 

Hi Again Cloudy B,

 

Here is my taper plan along with an example of a dose reduction from .125mg:

 

I am currently Benzo Free! I tapered from 5mg of Klonopin and here are a few things I have learned along the way:

 

I dry-cut directly from Klonopin.  I have learned some important things about this process for me:

 

 

1) I have found that I need to hold for no shorter than 2 weeks. That is because Klonopin has a half-life of 30 to 40 hours and the generic clonazepam has a half-life of 18 to 50 hours. It takes five half-lives to get a dose reduction out of our system.

2) I listen to my body and hold until it feels like it has adjusted to the new lower dose. I usually get a few lower symptom days before I do another dose reduction.

3) My average holds have been 2 to 4 weeks

4) In order to keep the symptoms at a tolerable level, I keep my cuts around 10% or lower.

5) I have been able to keep my cuts below 10% by going to .03125mg when I hit .5mg of Klonopin.

6) When I got to .125mg I slowed my taper to .015625mg dose reductions. 

7) My last dose was .015625mg. Then I became Benzo Free.

 

 

 

In case you are interested in how I am able to dry cut the lower doses:

 

Cutting 0.25mg:

 

Here is how I am able to get the .25mg pieces. I break the .5mg tablet in half.  The brand Klonopin is scored and breaks in half easily.

 

 

Cutting 0.125mg

Take the .25mg and cut that in half. That is a .125mg piece.  I use an angle razor, like a box cutter. And cut on hard surface like glass or a mirror.

 

 

Cutting 0.0625mg

 

I have the 0.5mg Klonopin.

 

I break the 0.5mg tablet in half then, I cut 1/4th off of that. I use an angle razor like a box cutter. I have found that the razor is thinner and sharper than the pill splitters I have worked with. Yet, I have read that some have no problem using pill splitters.

 

I cut the 1/4th off of the tablet on a glass surface. I have found the glass surface to be hard enough to get a clean cut. I press down firm and fairly fast. The 1/4th breaks away (from the .25mg). Now I have 0.0625mg.

 

NOTE: If you are unable to get a chip that is .0625mg then you could crush it into powder. That would work as well. You would take a .25 mg piece and separate it into 4 piles.

 

 

Cutting 0.03125mg (Powder)

The way I get the 0.03125mg is I crush a 0.25mg piece and separate the powder into 8 piles. I happen to have a window scraper; so that is what I use, or you could use a razor. I crush the 0.25mg on a dinner plate with the top part of a pill crusher. Then use the window scraper or razor to separate the pile into 8. Each pile is 0.03125mg.

 

NOTE:  (What I do is crush the portion of the tablet. Then I put it in one pile. I do my best, with the razor to separate the pile into two. Then I take the two piles and separate them into two. That makes four piles. Then I take those and separate them into two more piles. That makes eight.)

 

 

Cutting 0.0156mg (Powder)

The way I would get a 0.0156mg cut is by crushing 0.125mg piece (to get the 0.125mg, cut the 0.25mg in half). Then crush the 0.125mg on a dinner plate, into powder with the top of a pill crusher. I happen to have a window scraper so that is what I use or you could use a razor. Then separate the piles into 8. Each pile is 0.0156mg.

 

 

Cutting 0.0078mg (Powder)

Crush a 0.625mg into powder and separate into 8 piles.

 

NOTE: With the powder, here is how I take it. I lick my finger, press it on the powder, then I put the powder in my mouth. Then I drink some water after.

 

Here is how I do the Percentages:

You get the % by taking the dose reduction and dividing it by the dose you are currently at. For example; a 0.03125mg dose reduction from 0.5mg is a 6.25% dose reduction.  0.03125 divided by 0.5 = 6.25% reduction.

 

OR I use this calculator:

Percent Calculator:

 

http://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/algebra/percentagechange.php

 

Here is an example of reducing the dose from .125mg by .015625mg:

0.0625mg (Chip or Powder)

0.03125mg (Powder)

0.015625mg (Powder)

---------------------------------

0.109375mg Total

That is a 12.2% dose reduction

 

 

I wish you only the best,

Summer 

Cloudy--

It sounds like we are in similar situations, but you are several months ahead of me.  I recently jumped off K without knowing much about what I was doing.  I am very interested and ENCOURAGED by your very slow taper from .25 mg because that is where I am now, nearly 2 weeks since reinstating.

 

I am now very afraid of destabilizing myself again through another withdrawal and plan to take things very slowly.  May I ask about your symptoms from the fast taper/cold turkey vs. the very slow taper?  I am most concerned about experiencing significant anxiety (read can't go to work) and depersonalization again.  Did you have any of these symptoms on your first attempt that you now have been able to avoid on your slow taper?

 

Anything you can say about that would be greatly appreciated.  If it takes me 3-4 months to go from .25 to .125 with manageable symptoms then so be it!!!!

Cloudy,

 

I tapered off 2mg K for 7 months and jumped on June 19. Put on Valium to help temper bad w/d. I have been sick all the way down. Started at 6mg V. Now on .75 2x a day. When I started going below 1 mg. I had a lot of trouble. I switched to a 5% taper and actually caught a window of 36 hrs. It just ended. I think the smaller taper is wise. 2-4 weeks at each dose per summermeadow is what I follow now. I have been told that the smaller the dose, the harder it is. I tapered from k-pin at 12% reductions and was sick but did kept going. My w/d is still the k. V just makes it more manageable. Feeling it big time the more I taper from the valium. Good luck to you.

Hi Again Cloudy B,

 

Here is my taper plan along with an example of a dose reduction from .125mg:

 

I am currently Benzo Free! I tapered from 5mg of Klonopin and here are a few things I have learned along the way:

 

I dry-cut directly from Klonopin.  I have learned some important things about this process for me:

 

Thanks Summer Meadow for posting your taper schedule!  Greatly appreciated!

Cloudy--

It sounds like we are in similar situations, but you are several months ahead of me.  I recently jumped off K without knowing much about what I was doing.  I am very interested and ENCOURAGED by your very slow taper from .25 mg because that is where I am now, nearly 2 weeks since reinstating.

 

I am now very afraid of destabilizing myself again through another withdrawal and plan to take things very slowly.  May I ask about your symptoms from the fast taper/cold turkey vs. the very slow taper?  I am most concerned about experiencing significant anxiety (read can't go to work) and depersonalization again.  Did you have any of these symptoms on your first attempt that you now have been able to avoid on your slow taper?

 

Anything you can say about that would be greatly appreciated.  If it takes me 3-4 months to go from .25 to .125 with manageable symptoms then so be it!!!!

 

 

Hi there Bug --

 

I'm glad that my experience is encouraging to you.  It definitely can be done : )

 

Earlier this year, I tried to 'taper' very quickly (without psych supervision) from 0.5 mg, to 0.375, 0.25, 0.125, to zero mg of Klonopin over about 3-4 weeks.  Surprisingly, I didn't feel very much on the way down - some jitteriness starting in the third week.  I actually felt really good.  Then a little less than a week after my final dose, I went into pretty severe withdrawal.  Anxiety, paranoia, muscle tightness, jitteriness/couldn't sit still, my head was spinning: couldn't focus, nausea, shaking, depersonalization - you name it.  It was pretty unbearable and terrifying.  And then I searched online and found Benzobuddies and learned about K withdrawal.  I reinstated and held at 0.25 mg: it was pretty bad for a month; and another month to fully renormalize.

 

The thing about Klonopin that many, including myself, do not understand when starting a taper is that its effects are extremely long lasting and as a result it is one of the most addictive drugs known.  It's chemical half life is 20-50 hours (that's the time it takes to eliminate 50% from your bloodstream), but more importantly, when your brain is exposed to K for extended periods of time (more than a few weeks), it stops making GABA receptors.  It can take weeks or months for those receptors to be regenerated by the neurons in your brain; and in the absence of those receptors or drug, your brain is screaming.  It is this much longer 'functional half-life' that we need to focus on and as a result of it, we need to taper very very slowly.  The slower, the better.

 

To answer your question, the symptoms I experienced on my taper were similar but much milder withdrawal symptoms.  I sometimes have a bit of anxiety/jitteriness, coupled with headaches and tooth numbness and slight visual aura.  Sometimes my head feels like it's spinning a bit and I have trouble focusing properly.  And sometimes I have slight nausea - like a mild hangover.  I'd say I have mild symptoms almost all the time, but that I'm 80-90% functional and can certainly perform normally.

 

I've found the following to be quite helpful in managing my mild symptoms:  Green tea (decaf) or L-Theanine (its active ingredient) helps immensely with the jitters/anxiety.  Theanine increases GABA and calms you down while focusing your mind.  It's great.  Any time I feel jittery, I drink a bunch of decaf green tea/eat a few 200mg Theanines during the day and it helps a lot.  Just make sure the green tea is decaf, as caffeine has the opposite effect   Advil helps with the headaches.  When I have nausea, I sometimes nibble on ~200mgs of GABA (another supplement that you can buy); it makes me a bit sleepy but helps with the nausea.

 

If you can find a compounding pharmacy, ask your doc to write you a prescription for a Klonopin suspension.  I have mine made at 25 micrograms/mL and started at 10mL, reducing by 0.5mL every 3 weeks.  I'm now down to 5mL=125 micrograms.  If you can't get to a compounding pharmacy, you can either do dry cuts (see Summer Weather's posts) or there are ways of dissolving K in water or milk and then measuring the liquid accurately that are posted on these forums.  Bottom line, try to be as accurate as you can, because the effects can take weeks to manifest and are therefore difficult to control if you make a mistake; and try to take your Klonopin as close to the same time every day as you can.  I use a pipette to measure my solutions, as syringes are not very accurate.

 

In my experience, it takes about 3 weeks to feel the effect of a cut.  At the very beginning, I sometimes cut after 2 weeks, but generally it was smoother if I did it every 3 weeks.  The slower your go, the less symptoms you will have; and the less symptoms you have the faster you can go .  So, we have to find our own balance and manage it as you go.  If you feel sick, hold the dose for a few more days or a week longer; and when you feel OK, make another cut.  Again, in my experience, 10% cuts are quite a lot, but there are plenty of folks who seem to be able to cut considerably more, successfully.  You'll have to find your own speed.  But always best to start slow.

 

I hope this helps and I wish you the best of luck with your taper.  Since you've only reinstated 2 weeks ago, I would hold for a few more weeks to make sure you've fully stabilized before starting your taper.  Don't worry, it DOES get better.

 

Cloudy

 

 

 

 

Thanks so much for your responses Cloudy!  I too felt great as I quickly tapered.  The first few days after I jumped were fine too.  It was 5 days off that the worst of the s/x really kicked in.  The physical s/x were pretty bad, but it was the mental stuff (anxiety/ cog fog) that I could not handle.  Even though I have only been on benzos a short time (and K even shorter still) I am going to follow this strategy and go very slowly. 

 

I have been taking one dose every night about 8PM.  The last few days I've actually been pretty good during the day and the cog fog/anxiety kicks in around 4-5 unless some separate stressor causes it to come a little sooner.  I find myself just counting the minutes until I can take that half a pill and things usually clear up in an hour or so.  Should I start dosing 2X/day or will that just give me low level w/d symptoms all day long?  I could switch the dose to the morning so most of the interdose withdrawal symptoms will take place while I am sleeping, but I'm worried that I will be zonked until about noon each day.  I am going to contact the compounding pharmacies in my area to see what they can do prior to contacting my psych doc.

 

Thanks again, and please let me know how things go as you start getting towards those lower doses.

 

Bug

Thanks so much for your responses Cloudy!  I too felt great as I quickly tapered.  The first few days after I jumped were fine too.  It was 5 days off that the worst of the s/x really kicked in.  The physical s/x were pretty bad, but it was the mental stuff (anxiety/ cog fog) that I could not handle.  Even though I have only been on benzos a short time (and K even shorter still) I am going to follow this strategy and go very slowly. 

 

I have been taking one dose every night about 8PM.  The last few days I've actually been pretty good during the day and the cog fog/anxiety kicks in around 4-5 unless some separate stressor causes it to come a little sooner.  I find myself just counting the minutes until I can take that half a pill and things usually clear up in an hour or so.  Should I start dosing 2X/day or will that just give me low level w/d symptoms all day long?  I could switch the dose to the morning so most of the interdose withdrawal symptoms will take place while I am sleeping, but I'm worried that I will be zonked until about noon each day.  I am going to contact the compounding pharmacies in my area to see what they can do prior to contacting my psych doc.

 

Thanks again, and please let me know how things go as you start getting towards those lower doses.

 

Bug

 

Hi Bug,

 

Glad I can be helpful. And happy to share my experiences with you.

Although you were only on benzos fairly briefly, it sounds to me like you were definitely on them long enough to develop tolerance.  My guess - given how fast you cut from 0.25mg to zero; and how recently it has been - is that you are still re-normalizing.  So, for now I wouldn't change anything, just hold where you are.  Over the next few weeks, things should settle down to the point that the anxiety is mostly gone during the day. 

 

I know exactly what you mean that the pills start to wear off a couple of hours before you take the next dose.  It happens to me too.  However, it was much worse when I was in withdrawal from cold turkeying, which I think is still what you are experiencing the tail end of.  I too counted the minutes.  Once I renormalized (and I think it took a couple of months' total, from a similar cold turkey to yours), the effects become much milder and more more manageable.  Most days, if I feel anything at all towards the end of the day, it is less 'anxiety' per se, than a sense of 'crashing'/feeling a bit woozy/lack of energy

 

I wouldn't start splitting your dose during the day: it will simply make the taper more complicated to manage (twice as many doses).  And I believe that the w/d symptoms you are trying to manage in this way will actually slowly resolve, on their own as you restabilize.  Nor would I take the K in the mornings as it will make you zonked.  I take it right before i go to bed, but whatever works best for you.  You've definitely seen the worst of it already....but it might take a little while longer.  I would say after a month, you're ~80% renormalized; and the next month gets you the final 20% of the way.  In the meantime, I highly recommend decaf green tea/L-theanine.  They are a god-send for an  anxious/jittery mind.

 

Re compounding pharmacies, I live in NYC, so there are quite a few available.  However, as far as I can make out, they are always privately owned pharmacies, rather than the big chains like Walgreens.  I'm not sure what the situation is outside of major cities.  If you can't find someone to make you a K solution at a compounding pharmacy, I think your best bet will be to either do dry cuts (pulverizing pills and splitting the amounts with a straight razor); or to make your own solutions (either water or milk).  I am not familiar with these other approaches, but they are covered extensively on this website.  Bottom line, if you take it slow and you are accurate in measuring your daily doses, you will minimize the side effects - and that is the key to a smooth recovery.  From what I hear anecdotally, how well you feel when jump has a lot to do with how likely your jump is to succeed, so if you're feeling like you're in withdrawal, hold your dose a few days longer.

 

There is no such thing as too slow a taper.  And from what I can make out the majority of people who have nightmarish experiences do so because they cut too fast.  Another word of advice:  once you've settled on a taper plan and have a psych who understands and supports your progress, stop reading stories on benzobuddies.  There is a lot of anxiety going on in these forums and every time I spend time here, I find myself starting to see things more negatively...just food for thought.  Try to do things that distract you, rather than focusing on what might go wrong.  Remember, the worst is behind you: you have learnt from your mistakes and now you will get it right.

 

Hang in there and feel free to fire away if you have additional questions: PM me, as I dont always check in on BB.

 

Good luck!

This is a great thread.

 

Answered a lot of questions that I didn't even realize I had. 

 

Lots of good tips on here.

 

Thanks again Cloudy--

I went to the compounding pharmacy today and had a solution of K made up so I will now be switching over to liquid.  They said you must keep it cold and said the efficacy of the K could decrease after 30 days.  Do you have any advice/comments regarding how long the solution should be good for.  The pharmacist didn't really seem to know for sure about this.

 

I did pick up some L Theamine and tried it with pretty good results.  I'm actually feeling pretty good the last few days, so I will wait to use as it is not cheap.

 

I agree 100% about not reading a lot of the comments on this board as they will just increase anxiety.

 

Thanks again-

Bug

Thanks again Cloudy--

I went to the compounding pharmacy today and had a solution of K made up so I will now be switching over to liquid.  They said you must keep it cold and said the efficacy of the K could decrease after 30 days.  Do you have any advice/comments regarding how long the solution should be good for.  The pharmacist didn't really seem to know for sure about this.

 

I did pick up some L Theamine and tried it with pretty good results.  I'm actually feeling pretty good the last few days, so I will wait to use as it is not cheap.

 

I agree 100% about not reading a lot of the comments on this board as they will just increase anxiety.

 

Thanks again-

Bug

 

Hi Bug,

 

Glad to hear that you were able to find a compounding pharmacy to make you a solution of K.  I don't really have a very good answer for you regarding how long the K solution will last for.  My psych says she believes K is very stable in solution, but she isn't sure.  And my pharmacist said to use it with 30 days, but told me it didn't need to be stored in the fridge.  Then again, he's probably motivated to say 30 days, in order to sell more, I think.

 

Here's my 2 cents.  First, my K 'solution' is actually made as a 'suspension' in some kind of thick, sweet, pinkish liquid.  This means that the Klonopin isn't actually dissolved, but rather tiny fragments of K powder are suspended in the liquid.  I think yours might be the same? Have a look and see if you can see little bits of powder in the liquid.  Second, I've used my Klonopin suspension for up to 6-7 weeks at a time, with no noticeable problems and I've stored it at room temperature.  I typically get my psych to write me a prescription for 2 doses per day (BID), so that one month's prescription lasts me for 2 months; and about 6 weeks in, I get a new prescription for a new batch.

 

The reason I ask about whether yours is a suspension or not, is that I believe that suspensions are probably fairly stable since the drug itself is not dissolved in solution.  I'm not a chemist, but to me a suspension is simply powder drug floating in a liquid.  And it seems to me that the K powder is quite stable...?  So, all in all, I wouldn't be too worried about the stability of your meds for at least 6 weeks at a time - and I'm guessing that if you store them in the fridge it will be even better.

 

On a different note, how will you be measuring your K solution?  Syringes are notoriously inaccurate.  I'm a trained biologist, and if you're using syringes to decrease by small volumes, the errors are likely to be similar to the amount you are cutting by.  If at all possible, you should try to get hold of plastic pipettes, which are much more accurate.  You can use your mouth to suck up the liquid and then hold it with your thumb and let the liquid drop down to the required volume.  Pipettes are much much more accurate and you can get them from lab supply companies.  If you need pointers, I can find some links for you.  It's a bit of a pain, but I highly recommend being accurate as you cut.  If your daily dose varies by more than a few %, you'll suddenly find yourself sick for a few days, 3 weeks later.  Just food for thought.

 

Glad L-theanine is helpful Do try decaf green tea, too.  I think it works even better (although decaf still has some caffeine).

 

Keep up the good work and if you have further questions, PM me.

 

All the best,

 

Cloudy

 

 

Bug and Summer-

I am following Summer's dry cuts but Bug mentioned inaccuracy could be hard on your body. I know looking at my cuts they are not very even. I am prob on enough right now it is ok but as I get lower am I going to notice more.

 

I agree with the don't dose more then one or twice a day- mine is split into 3 and it is driving me nuts. Going to try to get rid of the 3rd dose and keep the other 2 morn and night- that is how I used to take it anyway but for some reason my doc thought I should split into 3. Not sure why I listened!

 

Someone said- so if it takes several months oh well- I so agree! I want to do this right and I want to keep living the best that I can! If I did cold turkey I would not be able to do all of the other great things that also help my body to heal.

"Syringes are notoriously inaccurate. "

 

Actually, syringes are extraordinarily accurate, depedning on their size and gradations. I am a trained neuropharmacologist with over 20 years in dosing/formulations and have calibrated many syringe types over the years. The 10 ul gradations on a 1 ml or 0.5 ml syringe are dependable. Your technique needs to be good, however. That being said, micropipetters will afford one even more accuracy, but may not be as useful as syringes when one is using highly viscous suspensions.

Cloudy-- you are correct; it is really a suspension in some sort of cherry flavored concoction.  I am using a 1 mL syringe.  It is only about $20 to have the suspension made up, so I'm thinking I might just have a new one made up every 3 weeks that will be equal to 1ml.  I figure that should be pretty easy to dose without making too many mistakes, don't you?  It seems that the key is to draw a little bit extra in there and push out the air bubble-- and maybe a little of the suspension as well.  Suggestions?

Cloudy-- you are correct; it is really a suspension in some sort of cherry flavored concoction.  I am using a 1 mL syringe.  It is only about $20 to have the suspension made up, so I'm thinking I might just have a new one made up every 3 weeks that will be equal to 1ml.  I figure that should be pretty easy to dose without making too many mistakes, don't you?  It seems that the key is to draw a little bit extra in there and push out the air bubble-- and maybe a little of the suspension as well.  Suggestions?

 

Ugg $20- I just found out the pharm my doc found charges $40. I am going to look at the calcs and try to keep doing it dry for awhile then maybe liquid at the end- did someone say don't switch back and forth?

I wish I could complain about a $20 charge to compound (thats about what my pharmacist adds on top of the lorazepam cost to compound it). I've got to shell out $500/hr to see my psychiatrist, who doesnt accept any form of insurance. :'(

I wish I could complain about a $20 charge to compound (thats about what my pharmacist adds on top of the lorazepam cost to compound it). I've got to shell out $500/hr to see my psychiatrist, who doesnt accept any form of insurance. :'(

 

Serious? I am spoiled with good insurance. Can a general doc help with the meds now? My gen doc does it. It was a psych that got me on this junk 13 years ago.

 

I do need a counselor and don't want my old one but not having any luck getting other's to call back- someone told me we have too few in our area which is crazy- I live by MSU.

Cloudy-- you are correct; it is really a suspension in some sort of cherry flavored concoction.  I am using a 1 mL syringe.  It is only about $20 to have the suspension made up, so I'm thinking I might just have a new one made up every 3 weeks that will be equal to 1ml.  I figure that should be pretty easy to dose without making too many mistakes, don't you?  It seems that the key is to draw a little bit extra in there and push out the air bubble-- and maybe a little of the suspension as well.  Suggestions?

 

Ugg $20- I just found out the pharm my doc found charges $40. I am going to look at the calcs and try to keep doing it dry for awhile then maybe liquid at the end- did someone say don't switch back and forth?

 

I read that it's not good to switch back and forth, but I'm not sure if that's accurate for everyone.

Can you also do liquid for one dose and tabs for the rest while on larger amount? The pharm said this stuff I am getting will be stable for 6 months so I can use it however I want. I was thinking to use up some tabs for the larger doses- I do .25 in am and afternoon right now and .09375, soon to be .0625 at night.

 

Just want to use it for the doses that I am currently crushing for. As doses get smaller I would switch over to just liquid.

Cloudy-- you are correct; it is really a suspension in some sort of cherry flavored concoction.  I am using a 1 mL syringe.  It is only about $20 to have the suspension made up, so I'm thinking I might just have a new one made up every 3 weeks that will be equal to 1ml.  I figure that should be pretty easy to dose without making too many mistakes, don't you?  It seems that the key is to draw a little bit extra in there and push out the air bubble-- and maybe a little of the suspension as well.  Suggestions?

 

Bug --

 

Sorry for taking a while to respond.  I think what you're suggesting makes sense.  If I'm understanding you correctly, each time you have a new suspension made, you ask the pharmacist to make it, say, 5% less strong and therefore you keep the volume fixed at 1mL.  Makes sense to me.

 

I've been doing it a bit differently:  I make my cuts by reducing the volume I pipette by 5% at a time, without changing the strength of the Klonopin suspension.  But I think it should be the same, either way.

 

Hope this helps

 

 

I trust myself (to do precise volume reductions) FAR more than I trust the pharmacist to do precise drug concentration reductions in successive batches of drug suspension/solution.

"Syringes are notoriously inaccurate. "

 

Actually, syringes are extraordinarily accurate, depedning on their size and gradations. I am a trained neuropharmacologist with over 20 years in dosing/formulations and have calibrated many syringe types over the years. The 10 ul gradations on a 1 ml or 0.5 ml syringe are dependable. Your technique needs to be good, however. That being said, micropipetters will afford one even more accuracy, but may not be as useful as syringes when one is using highly viscous suspensions.

 

Thanks, that's good to know .  For what it's worth, when I worked as bench research biologist, we never used syringes to accurately measure the volume of any liquids - always pipettes or micropipettes.

 

I do agree with you that pipetting viscous suspensions like Klonopin can be tricky.  After I have pipetted the dose, the liquid continues to coat the inside of the pipette and I always have to wait a few seconds for it to pool at the tip of the pipette and let those few extra drops come out.  At the end, I am typically left with a very tiny amount of liquid in the tip of the pipette, which is quite consistent from dose to dose.  I would say less than 1% error.

 

Bottom line, whatever means you use to dispense a liquid will have some error involved.  But as long as that error is consistent from dose to dose, it shouldn't matter.

I trust myself (to do precise volume reductions) FAR more than I trust the pharmacist to do precise drug concentration reductions in successive batches of drug suspension/solution.

 

Another good point, Laserjet!