Lorazepam to diazepam

Hi

 

I'm really struggling with swapping lorazepam 1mg to diazepam. I was put on a direct switch last week to 7.5mg , I lasted 4 days, I was sedated and could barely stand. I'm only 93lbs so not sure if this has anything to do with it.

 

I have now had to go back to lorazepam in the morning 0.5mg and diazepam 2mg afternoon. It's supposed to be 4mg but I can't tolerate the sedation, I did try the 4mg on Tuesday but was then too sedated to take the mirtazapine 7.5 that I usually take at night.

 

  I've taken the lorazepam with diazepam for the last 4 days.Yesterday afternoon once lorazepam wore off I started to get very tight chested, chest pain, difficulty breathing, problems swallowing, heart rate constant over 100 and is 130 if I stand up, very dizzy, severe derealisation. I also have a flu like bug which I've had the last two days but it wasn't too bad yesterday until the lorazepam wore off and I took the diazepam. I've never felt so ill. I was already in tolerance withdrawal from lorazepam which was why I didn't think I'd be able to taper with it. I'm also getting these strange things happen after I fall asleep where Im jolted awake my body goes rigid then heart pounds then I fall asleep again. They're really scary and not sure if it's to do with the benzos or mirtazapine. Anyone suffered similar? I'm concerned it's seizure activity.

 

Anyone got any ideas what I could do and if these symptoms are benzo related? Also have I kindled myself after going back to lorazepam.

 

Thank you

 

❤️

 

 

 

Kindling is associated with the repeated starting and stopping of benzodiazepines, have you completely stopped them in the past?  Kindling

 

Your symptoms are common for benzodiazepine withdrawal and I believe what you're experiencing at night are hypnic jerks and they're common too, I wonder if you're dealing with the benzo flu as well, do you have a fever?

 

Have you decided to discontinue the Valium?

Hi Pamster,

 

Yes I was on diazepam 2mg for 8 weeks in November 2021, was then using it prn and was then put on lorazepam.

 

I'll look into hypnic jerks. It seems to happen after I take the mirtazapine so could be either drug causing this.

I think I genuinely have a virus on top as my daughter also has this but it seems to be made worse by the switch. 

 

I am still taking the diazepam, so 0.5mg lorazepam am and 2-4mg diazepam afternoon  as a cross taper

What is your goal dose for the Diazepam, it looks like you're very sensitive to it.

I have a taper schedule written by a health practitioner from a benzo charity. They want me to go to 8mg as an equivalent but I don't think I can handle the sedation, I was nearly on the floor at 7.5mg.. I know the equivalent dose is between 6 and 10mg which is a rather big difference.

The range is 2.5 to 10 mgs and people like you are the reason why there is a range doctors choose from, we're all different in how we react to these medications https://clincalc.com/Benzodiazepine/

 

Most members who make the cross successfully say they acclimate to the sedation and are glad they stuck with it.

Thank you. Do you think I've kindled by going back to the cross taper? I feel like I've really messed my brain up and it doesn't know what's going on.

Also, as I have been having interdose withdrawal from the lorazepam for some time, especially when I get up in the morning, is this a kind of kindling because it's like going into withdrawal everyday? I read at the bottom of the page you  linked that that can happen if someone doses at night with a short acting benzo. Ive always taken my doses evenly twice daily.  I just feel like I've done some real awful damage..

Following because also wondering about interdose withdrawals and kindling

My understanding of kindling is you're likely to experience worse symptoms after repeated starts and stops of the drug over the years.  It doesn't mean you won't heal and it doesn't have anything to do with crossing to another drug, to me, its the body's way of saying enough, this medication isn't the cure.

 

Interdose withdrawal on short acting drugs is common, tolerance is also common, this isn't kindling, I feel too many of us get caught up in the fear of kindling when its not that complicated.  To me kindling is the lesson some of us have to learn in order to finally just say no. 

 

Its good you're crossing over to diazepam if you've been dealing with interdose, many lorazepam users will dose 3 times a day but I want you to know you haven't done any damage, yes, you're injured right now, everyone here is but we can recover, our brain is an amazing organ. 

Thank you, I really appreciate your replies. When I reduced to 1mg from 1.5 last September I didn't really notice it but I was put on mirtazapine at the same time and this somehow helped but the good effects of that have worn off very quickly.

 

Yes the interdose withdrawal has become very painful, causing very rapid changes in mood, derealisation, vertigo, heart rate all over the shop, severe anxiety, severe depression. It just got worse all of a sudden which was odd. I was initially worried about the diazepam because when I was on a small dose before the lorazepam it made me more depressed. So strange why it has this effect..l know they all cause depression. I read that taking benzos long term can affect production of serotonin, dopamine and noradrenaline and withdrawal also does this.

 

Are there any ways of mitigating the depression, is there a particular thread on here which explores this?

Sedation and depression are two of the most common complaints of those crossing to diazepam, I'm told both will fade once you acclimate to the drug.  Some people aren't able to make the cross and go back to their original drug but those who stick it out are happy they did.

 

I'm happy you had good luck with the Mirtazapine initially but not much can touch our symptoms when they get too extreme so I'm not surprised its not as effective, is it helping you sleep?

Yes the mirtazapine does help with sleep but when I done the straight switch last week with diazepam, I was too sedated and I had to miss several doses as I just too sedated to take it. That's why I had to go back to cross taper because it was too much, which I knew it would be. The mental health team I'm under said I would not notice a difference but I knew I would as I'd previously had no luck on it.  Do people usually do a slow cross taper or direct switch?

Thats interesting your team said you wouldn't notice a difference, most everyone I've read here can, I guess that's the difference between living it and prescribing it.

 

Most people who are introduced to the Ashton manual before they begin their taper will do a staged crossover. 

Yes, it's a shame but I have no support from them, the very people who have prescribed the drug. I did mention the Ashton method to my doctor but it fell on deaf ears that's why they done the direct switch and it failed.

 

Im in the UK and I read on another thread that there might be a deprescribing clinic set up. We really need something like that here

Have you heard anything about this?

I've often mentioned that if the pharmaceutical companies realized how much money they could make by supplying us the means to taper off these medications, they'd jump on it.  I hadn't heard of a deprescribing clinic but that would be so helpful, as long as they listened to their patients.