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Tapper down Plan for Clonazepam - Seeking advise


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Hello All,

 

First of all thank you for helping me out. Just 4 days ago I realized I became dependent to Clonazepam. It only took 25 mgs taken from January until November 1st. Since the last 4 months I took 7 mg. The last two weeks I used 6 times, 5 times I took 0.5 Mg and 1 time 1 mg. 3.5 mgs total.

 

It was prescribed to me by my family doctor for sleep issues. I took it only when I really needed it as I was concerned about it. Something I noticed is that my sleep started to deteriorate while I was not using it. I never thought that the Clonazepam was harming me that much.

 

Could you please help me with a plan? I was advised by Pamster to tapper down from 0.5 mg or 0.75 mg. May be I should start from 0.5 mg and see how I feel before going higher?

 

I am open to all your suggestions. To handle a tapper down has its nuances and I am here to learn.

 

Thanks to all in advance.

 

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Since your average use in the past two weeks was 0.5 I'd say it's probably best to stabilize at 0.5mg. You'd want to stay on this dose for a couple of weeks before you start cutting so you're stabilized first.

 

But in the meantime you can plan how you want to proceed with your taper.

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Thanks for providing a bit of your history, it would be helpful if you incorporated it into your signature.  This way, other members can see at a glance what you've been dealing with and they'll be able to make informed suggestions.  Here are the instructions but if you have difficulty a team member can input it for you. Add your history/signature

 

What size are your pills, are they .5?  Do you have a guaranteed supply from your doctor, enough to do a slow taper?

 

 

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Hello Pamster,

 

Thank you from my heart for helping me on this.

 

I was poisoned with Levofloxacin in January, 3 pills put me on a wheel chair for several months with multiple side effects. I was able to recover, two days ago I run 1 mile. My first time I run that much; I am so grateful for that.  And now this, a massive new challenge.

 

I will add my story and signature soon.

 

I have Clonazepam of 2 mg pills and access to more of it if needed through local MD. I already purchased and have with me the Jewelry Scale that Brighterside recommended in a post.

 

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Hello Jelly Baby,

 

I am using a razor blade, a nail file and a jewelry scale.

 

The doctor recommeded to use liquid tapper. I think is better to stay in dry cut as is more precise.

 

Thanks

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What is the dose you've decided to stabilize on? It will really help if you can complete your signature as Pamster asked.

 

I only filed and shaved once before I changed methods because I struggled too much. Many people would weigh 10 tablets and get the average weight of 10 tablets. Then they would calculate the percentage reduction off the average weight. You have to keep filing and weighing and filing and weighing until you're at the the desired weight. It can take quite a bit of time to get there. As you get more familiar with shaving the tablets you'll get the hang of it and it will get easier. Let us know how things are going.

 

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Hello BB Administrators,

 

First of all thanks for all your help.

 

I have been reading and studying everything about benzo withdraw and trying to understand what´s the best to do in my case.

 

So far I have understood the following:

 

Tapering is essential, to avoid more damage and do my best to help in my recovery. I get that cold turkey or skip doses is harmful. I will not go that way.

 

 

As I was not taken Clonazepam daily, currently I am giving my body a few days to stabilize with a daily dose. From 0.5 Mg every second day I am trying 0.35 mg daily. I feel much better. Tinnitus has been reduced and I am sleeping better at night. I am waiting for another day to see If I must start from 0.4 mg daily or higher. I am planning to do daily micro tapering. Any tip about from what dose to start will be appreciated.

 

 

All this is new to me and honestly, I am still in shock; feeling hopeless and bitter for having been so naïve and blindly trust my health to a doctor. I have rarely been sick in my life so I was not aware about how cautious we must be with our “Health Industry “as you can be easily butchered by them. It has been hard to accept that I have been severely injured twice this year.

 

In January I was injured by 3 pills of Levofloxacin, that antibiotic almost killed me and left me in a wheelchair for months. I have put all my energy in my recovery which is being successful thanks to many victims of fluoroquinolone antibiotics that helped me. 

 

However, I am coming out from a deep hole that has been so hard to climb and I am realizing now that I fell in another one which is as deep or even deeper. Since January I have been living a horror movie that never ends thanks to whom suppose to “heal” us. My losses has been enormous; my health, social network from family and friends has almost collapsed, financial losses and I still can´t work.

 

I only realized that I was suffering from Benzo withdraw and that I have been injured by this kind of drugs two weeks ago when I joined BB.

 

I am noticing that the less stress I suffer, the better I sleep ( 4 or 5 hours) and the tinnitus is lower. Vagus Nerve exercises, ride my bicycle and acceptance are helping me. 

 

For what I have read It seems that I kindled myself. In April and May I used most of the Clonazepam I took this year. Due my ignorance I never tapered down.

 

All your feedback is welcome.

 

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I'm really glad you're feeling better.  It sounds like 0.35 is working so maybe give it a bit more time? How long have you been on this dose?

 

We know it can be very traumatic when you first realise what is happening to you. It's difficult to grasp the impact and consequences. I remember I thought "surely it can't be that difficult to get off these pills^. I never imagined I would have to trust a bunch of strangers with weird usernames on the internet to safely guide my medical decisions.

 

I promise you though that it does get easier. I am so happy to read you're talking about acceptance. It might take a bit of time because the loss is great but the sooner you get to acceptance the easier it will be.  We will help you through everything. Just know you're not alone.

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Jelly Baby,

 

Thanks for your encouragement and specially for your last words about that you will help me through everything and that I am not alone.

 

I am in 35 mg since the last two days. I have a feeling that my stabilizing dose is something in between 35 mg and 40 mgs. My tinnitus and sleep are guiding me. Specially my tinnitus, if gets too loud seems that my nervous system is under too much stress.

 

 

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You're welcome Eaubleu.

 

To be able to help you correctly, we just need to make sure we work on the same principles. Around here we don't count total usage as listed in your signature. We only work on the total daily dose. So I need to know what is the daily dose you are taking now please?

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Hello Jelly Baby,

 

Thanks for your message.

 

I may confirm that 0.35 mgs of daily dose before sleep is working for me. I just woke up and I am feeling almost “normal”. There is a mild tinnitus at my back but is tolerable. I don´t pay much attention to it. Today is starting as a good day and I am grateful.

 

I am keeping a daily journal with the everyday doses and how I sleep, feel along with tinnitus loudness and hyperacusis sensitivity. It seems that 0.35 Mgs of Clonazepam daily before sleep  is the number in my case.

 

For what I understand I will stabilize here for a few days and then start the tapper.

 

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Hello Jelly Baby,

 

Thanks for your message.

 

I may confirm that 0.35 mgs of daily dose before sleep is working for me. I just woke up and I am feeling almost “normal”. There is a mild tinnitus at my back but is tolerable. I don´t pay much attention to it. Today is starting as a good day and I am grateful.

 

I am keeping a daily journal with the everyday doses and how I sleep, feel along with tinnitus loudness and hyperacusis sensitivity. It seems that 0.35 Mgs of Clonazepam daily before sleep  is the number in my case.

 

For what I understand I will stabilize here for a few days and then start the tapper.

 

 

Hello again Jelly Baby,

 

Thanks again for all your help.

 

I have decided to perform micro water tapering. I am an engineer so I am good in math’s.

 

To tapper down I have planned to do it in 4.5 months so 135 days. Every day I will dissolve 0.35 mg of Clonazepam in 135 ml of water and remove 1 ml per day. Is 135 days ok or should I think in 300 days and remove more than 1 ml per day ( 2 ml for example) If I am doing well? All your ideas are very welcomed.

 

Reading other posts, I could tell that you have plenty of experience. I found a in the site a link to videos in YouTube that explain the system. I am ordering a pipette, beakers, and a syringe. I already have the Jewelry Scale recommended in the site.

 

I have a few questions about the system:

 

1) I must dissolve each milligram of Clonazepam in 1 ml of Vodka. Is that ok? Can I just dissolve the daily dose in water not using alcohol?

 

2) Should I use distilled water?

 

3) Any other tip? Am I right?

 

 

This is my first “good day” since October 27 when I found BB. I was taking Clonazepam every second day so my days without C. were very bad. Also I was shocked and frightened. Not anymore. I am slowly figuring all this out and I am getting ready to start my journey to healing.

 

A million thanks for your help.

 

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I'm very happy to hear that you're doing better and it seems as if your system is settling down now. I suggest you hold here for at least two weeks before starting to taper. Clonazepam has a very long half life, so your body needs time to fully materialize the effect of the drug.

 

Just a couple of notes. Lots of people have used water to successfully titrate. There's nothing wrong with it. However, I need to follow due diligence and just mention that the most reliable way to titrate is to get your liquid compounded by a pharmacist. That is our go-to response. If that's not an option then DIY is the next option. The reason is, when we make our own homebrew stuff we create suspensions not solutions, meaning the drug does not fully dissolve in the liquid (in this instance water) and are not evenly dispensed throughout. I just need you to be aware of the limitations and risks.

 

So to answer your questions:

 

1) You can add Vodka or you can leave it out. If people use it, it's generally just to help the process along.

2) I'm not sure about this, but I'm doing liquid titration (not quite the same as you) and only use distilled water.

3) Once you've drank the mixture, you can add more water to the beaker/cup and swoosh it around to make sure you pick up any particles left behind.

Also sometimes when people switch to liquid they require an adjustment period. We generally recommend you don't make any reductions when you switch but keep your dose the same to see if you have a reaction to liquid. This could be a couple of days.

 

Now to get to your planned reductions. You are proposing linear reductions to get to your jumping dose. I am strongly opposed to linear reductions as it goes against our percentages and symptoms based tapers. Linear reductions mean your percentages keep increasing and it has an inherent risk of increased symptoms. I have been doing liquid titration since September last year and have only done percentages (unless you get to the very low numbers, then you have to switch to linear to get off). I have been fully functional and my symptoms have been under control the whole time. You say you are an engineer and good in maths, so that's great. If you can get a concentration of 0.1mg/ml that would be the easiest. I strongly suggest you stick to percentages to determine the size of your reductions.

 

Please let me know if you have more questions.

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Hello Jelly Baby,

 

Thank you very much for your reply.

 

Just woke up and I am having my second “good day” in three weeks. I slept well (5 to 6 hours) and my tinnitus is very low. I have organized my life to have a minimum of stress, so that is helping me a lot. I am doing everything I can to promote my healing.

 

You are right, that method is liner and involves faster tapering in terms of % specially at the end. Thanks for showing me that.

 

I have been reading your posts. You have so much knowledge. I feel like you in your first posts when you started figuring all this out.

 

I have been trying to understand your method.

 

1) From what I get you started with dry tapering, and you moved to liquid. Is that correct? I am in Mexico, I could buy standard liquid Clonazepam from a Pharmacy here. I already have a prescription for it.

2) You are using DMT – (Daily Micro Tapering). Are you doing daily liquid micro tapering? Hoy much per day?

3) Reading your signature, I am trying to understand your percentage cut and how you do it. For example

 

On October 15, 2021 you were on 0.374 mg ( How fast were you DMT?)

On December 6, 2021 you were on 0.314mg (That´s a 16% cut in almost two months, why did you decide to do that?)

On December 06, 2021 you were on 0.314 mg and three weeks lates you drop to 0.25 mg (That´s a 20% drop, how did you determined that number? Symptoms based?

 

 

If you have posted the description of your method before, could you please show me where it is? You have 2000 posts, I read many but couldn´t find it.

 

One more question, being on 0.35 mg, how long should take me to get off this drug safely? I know everybody is different and is impossible to give an accurate answer to that question, but I mean a conservative average timeframe. I am asking you because having a timeframe may help me to organize my life in the coming months to promote my detox and healing.

 

A million thanks for sharing your knowledge and helping me. I feel much better knowing that I am not alone in all this.

 

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Hello, Eaubleu.  Just popping in to let you know that we have multiple members (e.g. QuitRiviotril, BenThrottle, bonty, Salazar77( who have used/are using the 2.5mg/mL Rivotril liquid/drops  to taper clonazepam.  Some have been able to taper from it directly; others dilute it with water to make a liquid with a lower concentration (e.g.,, 0.1mg/mL or 0.01mg/mL); doing this allows them to make smaller reductions in dose.

 

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Hello Libertas,

 

I am reading the stories of the members you mention. Thanks for pointing me in that direction.

 

I have a prescription for Rivotril 2.5 mg/ml and I have access to more of it, so it might be the best way to go. And you are right, it can be diluted in case I want to tapper slower.

 

All this is new to me so I am still carefully reading all your comments.

 

A million thanks.

 

 

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Hello Libertas,

 

Reading your posts I can tell that you have plenty of experience. Thanks for sharing it.

 

I am on 0,35 mg of Clonazepam. Currently in Mexico, and here I do have access to Roche Liquid Clonazepam. Reading the post of Salazar77 Roche is a reliable manufacturer, so I am happy to use that product in my taper. I was thinking to prepare my own brew as I was not sure in the quality and precision of the liquid clonazepam here.

 

I do have all the equipment and I understand the maths.

 

My question now is, which should be a safe plan to start the liquid taper? What would you recommend me? I have a good connection with my body and my main guidance will be symptom based. But I do not know what to do. I read the Ashton Manual but for some is a bit aggressive. I agree with Jelly Belly and I´d love to remain functional in my taper down. I don´t need or want to rush it. I am willing to do my best to have a smooth tapering and healing.

 

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Hi Eaubleu

 

If you can get liquid Rivotril that would be awesome. I see you're done a lot of reading and researching. Great work!

 

With regard to my own taper, I mainly did DMT starting off with Bob7's method. At 0.4mg I switched to liquid. You are very observant as in December last year I decided to take a risk with my cuts to see what reductions I could handle. I was on holiday so I did cut and hold with my liquid and made a 10% reduction. It went quite well. Then after 2 weeks I did another 10% reduction. This time I was really struggling. The two consecutive cuts were just too big. But I recovered within an extra week. With this experiment I learned my best rate is probably the average of my cuts at 7.5%. That's where I was tapering before as well. I knew I could not speed it up. I prefer micro tapering but it's difficult to determine percentages because the effects are delayed. You can't say for certain. So I was happy to take a calculated risk and try out these percentages with cut and hold.

 

I generally recommend people start at 7.5% reductions because it's in the middle of our recommended taper range. You can decide whether you want to do cut and hold with your liquid or micro tapering.

 

 

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Thank you for the kind words, Eaubleu.

 

That’s wonderful you have access to the Rivotril drops from Roche.  Roche is the patent holder and brand manufacturer so you can be confident that the quality and consistency of your liquid will be high.  Even more importantly, this liquid is a solution (not a suspension) so dosing accuracy will also be high (i.e. a given volume of the liquid will contain exactly the same amount of drug).

 

Are you already using the liquid?  If not, then I suggest your first first step is to determine how you will respond to the liquid.  Some individuals notice a difference in solid versus liquid dosage forms whereas others do not.  The only way to know is to try. 

 

A common mistake I see members make is to switch to a liquid and make a reduction in dose at the same time.  Instead, switch to the liquid at your current dose, taken at your current dosing time.  Refrain from making any other changes (e.g. adding another medication or supplement).  Then wait a week or so to see how you react.  (Have I already mentioned the importance of keeping a daily taper journal?  If not, let me know and I will elaborate.)

 

If all goes well with the switch from solid to liquid dosage form, your next step will be to make a reduction in dose.  Given your history of taking/discontinuing the clonazepam, you might want to consider starting with a conservative trial reduction in the range of 5%.  If all goes well with that, you can cautiously increase your taper rate until you find your ‘sweet spot’ (i.e. your personal taper rate limit).  The only way to discover this is via systematic experimentation such as jelly baby has conducted.  Different individuals can tolerate different rates.  Also, many individuals find they need to ‘fine tune’ (adjust) their taper rate multiple times during the course of their taper.

 

In closing …

 

In case you haven’t already read it,  you might find this post from member BenThrottle of interest. He describes how he is tapering clonazepam using the Rivotril drops.

 

Re: Help with taper plan. Liquid Clonazepam.

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=245494.msg3236429#msg3236429

 

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Jelly Baby and Libertas,

 

Thanks again to both. I feel a lot more confident now.

 

I am still cutting 2 mg pills with a razor blade and using a jeweler scale to get the 0.35 mg dose. I will move too liquid this week and wait as you recommended.

 

Yes, I already started a daily tapper journal with date, dose and notes regarding syptoms. It has been very helpful. I am planning to add percentages and keep all the formula calculations there. Should I add more information in the journal?

 

As I said I am in Mexico. I have a prescription for Liquid Clonazepam (Rivotril) from Roche but unfortunately I just found out that recentely it has been discontinued in this country. Tomorrow I will call Roche here in Mexico to check.

 

There are two alternative brands. Today I asked my local psychiatrist about them. He prefers Roche but he told me that the other two brands are also reliable and from reputable laboratories. He prefers one more than the other. So I will try the one that he advised me to use.

 

Thanks for sharing BenThrottle method. I will do the same.

 

I feel more confident and well informed to begin this healing journey now. Hope to have a smooth ride out.

 

 

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Oh no, I'm sorry about the Rivotril. I don't know if you've seen this thread discussing similar issues in Spain. I wonder if it has something do to with Roche? Libertas will probably know more.

 

I am no expert but my logic tells me if you can get a generic it should be okay. It can't be worse than what I'm brewing in my kitchen right?

 

I can see you have done a lot of reading and educating yourself about this process, which is good. I did the same. Before I started tapering I read so much. It helps to empower yourself to make decisions because there is no "one way fits all". We can each give you input but in the end you have to decide what is best for you. And the more you read the more informed your decisions are.

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