long term physiologic and biochemical damage CT vs taper

Has anyone seen evidence that could suggest CT may cause (more) long term/permanent neuro damage VS a taper, decreasing the risk of long term/permanent damage?  (My literature research suggests CT is more brutal. the risk of seizure is higher, etc., however, in the long run, CT does not lead to any more permanent neuro damage than a taper would cause).  How often is there permanent neuro damage in general?  Does it actually even ever happen? 

The ongoing narrative here and elsewhere is that withdrawal does not cause permanent damage.

I have permanent damage. Generalized tardive dystonia, myoclonus, tremor, akathisia.

What I've read here over the years and my own experience mirrors your research, a rougher recovery but not a greater risk of permanent damage.

 

We can't really know if the damage is permanent or if those who are suffering far out from their last dose are still recovering but very slowly.  We have a member who wrote a success story after 12 years so apparently healing is still happening even that far out.  Most will move on from the forum long before this so we can't know for sure who has permanent damage or if it is permanent.

I think there's 1 member here that's 19 years off. Now that scares the £#@+ out of me

No two ppl are alike.  CT is hardcore out of the gate but you heal from that also

I have permanent damage. Generalized tardive dystonia, myoclonus, tremor, akathisia.

 

With respect Arnold you do not know of that is the case.

 

Ppl who gave Functional Neurological Disorders have the same symptoms and many recover.

 

 

Ajusta...

I did a rapid 13 day taper after taking up to 1 mg of Clonazepam for three months. I then reinstated to 0.35 mg and have been tapering slowly over the past ten months. I have a lot of neurological problems and I hope they are not permanent. I am always dizzy, insomnia is off the charts, tons of muscle spasms, my left abdominal muscle spasms each time I inhale, my muscles are wasting, joints and muscles are stiff and sore, I developed POTS, I am losing coordination and the ability to use my hands, my skin burns, I lost the sensation of light touch over my ENTIRE body, I have heart palpitations, exercise intolerance, high heart rate, internal vibrations, light sensitivity, noise sensitivity, tinnitus, overall weakness, derealization, hot and cold intolerance, etc. The list goes on and on. I have cut to 0.018 mg of that poison per day, but every 0.001 mg cut causes me much more pain and suffering. My skin numbness is getting worse, and I can only feel pain now, no pleasurable touch. How can these drugs be legal? How can I ever recover from all of this damage? How? Taking 19 years to feel better is not reasonable. I am almost 60, so this is a death sentence if that is the case. Has anyone been as bad as I am and recovered in a reasonable amount of time? I need to know there is hope.

I did a rapid 13 day taper after taking up to 1 mg of Clonazepam for three months. I then reinstated to 0.35 mg and have been tapering slowly over the past ten months. I have a lot of neurological problems and I hope they are not permanent. I am always dizzy, insomnia is off the charts, tons of muscle spasms, my left abdominal muscle spasms each time I inhale, my muscles are wasting, joints and muscles are stiff and sore, I developed POTS, I am losing coordination and the ability to use my hands, my skin burns, I lost the sensation of light touch over my ENTIRE body, I have heart palpitations, exercise intolerance, high heart rate, internal vibrations, light sensitivity, noise sensitivity, tinnitus, overall weakness, derealization, hot and cold intolerance, etc. The list goes on and on. I have cut to 0.018 mg of that poison per day, but every 0.001 mg cut causes me much more pain and suffering. My skin numbness is getting worse, and I can only feel pain now, no pleasurable touch. How can these drugs be legal? How can I ever recover from all of this damage? How? Taking 19 years to feel better is not reasonable. I am almost 60, so this is a death sentence if that is the case. Has anyone been as bad as I am and recovered in a reasonable amount of time? I need to know there is hope.

 

There is always hope skyglider. I think it's southernbelle (my memory isn't great) was in a bad way, stuck in a wheelchair. She is doing well now at 2 years. 2 years is still a long time and it shouldn't be happening to people, but it's not a life sentence. You'll recover

I can’t imagine suffering like this for years. I can’t wrap my mind around that. No sleep, never sleepy tired, constantly tortured. I haven’t had a single window. Not one. I still have 0.018 mg/day of that poison to cut. Life is already unbearable and every tiny reduction plunges me further into hell. My skin is burning, I am dizzy, heart rate crazy (over 100 standing), my abdominal muscle won’t stop spasming, can’t feel light touch anywhere on body, skin completely numb in places like forehead, category 5 insomnia, don’t get sleepy tired anymore, can’t feel pleasure only pain, plus 20 other horrible withdrawal symptoms. I have no life anymore. Cutting the rest of that poison will be impossible at this rate, since I am only getting worse. Ashton said 1-2 years, sometimes permanent. How is that poison legal, and why are doctors so ignorant about the dangers? 

It beats me mate. It just gets swept under the carpet, because of big pharma. I never realized it was going on. Was only ever told it was addictive. Knew I wasn't addicted because they were making me ill. This suffering isn't because I was addicted!!

 

I haven't had a window either, but what can you do.... Just got to keep on keeping on and hope it gets better

Having a Mare,

 

I am sorry to see you are also suffering terribly. When did your nightmare really begin? Have you seen any improvement as time passed? I feel so discouraged by this ordeal. I can’t believe life as I knew it is really over. I wish you the best in your recovery.

I've not yet analyzed the data for long-term users, but I can say that for those one benzos less than a year, almost 3/4 quit cold turkey or rapid taper. Of those, nearly 75% experienced significant improvement if not close to complete recovery in one year. There was not clear difference in recovery between those that tapered vs cold turkey. However, withdrawal symptoms tended to be more severe in the first 3-6 months for most who did cold turkey.

 

Recovery, I suspect, has a lot to do with genetics. If we can figure out our genetic weaknesses, it might be possible to even out the odds. No one is studying this currently. I look through the medical literature daily for clues.

I was taking that poison for three months, then did a rapid taper from 1 mg over 13 days. I got no sleep when I went to zero and got up with burning skin and dizziness. I reinstated to 0.35 mg, and tried a slow taper from there. That was ten months ago, and my symptoms are at least 10x worse now. Every tiny cut is pure hell for me. I think I might have been better off not trying to taper because I exposed my body to ten additional months of that poison. Worse yet, I am still not off of it and jumping from my current dose of 0.018 mg/day will probable kill me. Now I feel trapped with no way out.

Having a Mare,

 

I am sorry to see you are also suffering terribly. When did your nightmare really begin? Have you seen any improvement as time passed? I feel so discouraged by this ordeal. I can’t believe life as I knew it is really over. I wish you the best in your recovery.

 

I was doing ok, then I had a setback from trying to exercise!!! That led me to try CBD which I reacted badly to, which led me to trying an AD which I had a severe adverse reaction to, which finally led me to drink rather than take a Benzo, things just snowballed into the mess I'm in now. That was just over 8 months ago, and although I have seen some improvement, I unfortunately think I really screwed myself, my brain is a mess.

 

I do get the occasional hour or two whare I think I'm doing ok,but it doesn't last long.

I know the temptation to turn to alcohol. I used it in the past. However, for the past several months I have not touched any. I have a big bottle of vodka in my bedroom and the temptation to drink a couple of shot at night when I can’t dose off and my skin burns is very strong. However, I know it targets the same gaba-a receptors that were harmed by the benzos, so it will set me back. That said, I picked up the bottle last night out of desperation but didn’t drink any. Every time in the past when I drank, I felt worse in the morning not better. It is just not worth it. No way will I ever touch any other mind altering drug like ADs. Forget it. I damaged my brain and body too much already. But I don’t know how I will survive this ordeal at this rate. The suffering is too intense. I am worried I won’t be able to cut much more because the symptoms are horrendous already. I am at 0.018 mg/day. I can’t stay at that level, I can’t go up, and I can’t go down. I am completely screwed.

I've not yet analyzed the data for long-term users, but I can say that for those one benzos less than a year, almost 3/4 quit cold turkey or rapid taper. Of those, nearly 75% experienced significant improvement if not close to complete recovery in one year. There was not clear difference in recovery between those that tapered vs cold turkey. However, withdrawal symptoms tended to be more severe in the first 3-6 months for most who did cold turkey.

 

Recovery, I suspect, has a lot to do with genetics. If we can figure out our genetic weaknesses, it might be possible to even out the odds. No one is studying this currently. I look through the medical literature daily for clues.

 

You should change your area of work Fluffer. Kick up some stink about this shit

Have you been exercising right along, or tried out of the blue to exercise? I go for walks when I feel up to it, and do 100 pushups per day. Sometimes I do some weight training with a 15 lb dumb bell. I can’t do much, and I used to weight train with heavy weights and jog 5 miles 3x per week. Before this happened to me, I could bench 245 lbs. Now I can barely get out of bed.

I know the temptation to turn to alcohol. I used it in the past. However, for the past several months I have not touched any. I have a big bottle of vodka in my bedroom and the temptation to drink a couple of shot at night when I can’t dose off and my skin burns is very strong. However, I know it targets the same gaba-a receptors that were harmed by the benzos, so it will set me back. That said, I picked up the bottle last night out of desperation but didn’t drink any. Every time in the past when I drank, I felt worse in the morning not better. It is just not worth it. No way will I ever touch any other mind altering drug like ADs. Forget it. I damaged my brain and body too much already. But I don’t know how I will survive this ordeal at this rate. The suffering is too intense. I am worried I won’t be able to cut much more because the symptoms are horrendous already. I am at 0.018 mg/day. I can’t stay at that level, I can’t go up, and I can’t go down. I am completely screwed.

 

Sorry you are in that spot. I have heard from others that jumping was the best for them, but there's no way of knowing what's the best thing to do. It's a horrible place to be, and nobody should have to live life like this. Can you just hold for a few months and see if things improve? I'm not really sure how it all works as I CT'd, but I'm sure someone will

Have you been exercising right along, or tried out of the blue to exercise? I go for walks when I feel up to it, and do 100 pushups per day. Sometimes I do some weight training with a 15 lb dumb bell. I can’t do much, and I used to weight train with heavy weights and jog 5 miles 3x per week. Before this happened to me, I could bench 245 lbs. Now I can barely get out of bed.

 

I was walking an hour every day, and riding my bike. Then thought I'd do a bit more and tried to go for a run! BAD BAD idea. Was the beginning of the end for me. I couldn't walk for a while after the AD without being in pain and putting myself into a wave. In fact I was barely out of bed for 4 months.

 

Now I just take it easy with walking, but i get very tired easy

As I tapered, when I hit 0.1 mg/day my symptoms got bad so I held for three months. Things just got worse. Then I updosed to 0.15 mg/day and things continued to get worse. So I decided to just push on with the taper, and things got much, much worse. I will not be held hostage by this poison, but Zi fear I have trashed my CNS in the process of getting off. What choice do I have now, but to continue cutting?

As I tapered, when I hit 0.1 mg/day my symptoms got bad so I held for three months. Things just got worse. Then I updosed to 0.15 mg/day and things continued to get worse. So I decided to just push on with the taper, and things got much, much worse. I will not be held hostage by this poison, but Zi fear I have trashed my CNS in the process of getting off. What choice do I have now, but to continue cutting?

 

Sorry mate. These drugs are just evil

I am surprised that running caused so much trouble, since you were already walking and riding your bike. Did you start the AD before or after your problem with running? Could it have been the AD causing the problem?

I haven't done any sort of heavy exercise in 20+ years! Pushed myself way too hard.

 

I only took the AD a few days later, that was a different story. Hallucinations, suicidal looping thoughts the works