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Help with Ashton Manual -- .58 mg clonazepam, would like to switch to diazepam


[DM...]

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Hello,

 

I am looking at the Ashton manual, and all I see is how to taper down from 1.5 and 3 mg of clonazepam a day.

 

I see that a very important step is slowly introducing the valium so no side effects occur during the crossover.

My main reasoning for getting off of benzos is because I believe they have caused my severe erratic, and reactive tinnitus.

 

I am currently on .558 mg/day, and I have ranged from .75 to 1 mg /day for the past 7 months.

I have been on .558 mg/day for 10 days now.

 

Does anyone have suggestions on how to slowly introduce diazepam at my dose level? Is it even necessary to switch over?

My main concern is worse tinnitus, which I simply cannot take at this point.

 

Thank you all.

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If your symptoms have been manageable this far I would not recommend a crossover to Valium. The majority of us taper directly from Clonazepam, myself included. I started at 1mg and I'm now below 0.125mg.

 

What method have you used to make reductions?

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If your symptoms have been manageable this far I would not recommend a crossover to Valium. The majority of us taper directly from Clonazepam, myself included. I started at 1mg and I'm now below 0.125mg.

 

What method have you used to make reductions?

 

Hello,

 

I have been using a jewelers scale to drop 10% per 2 weeks, but I want to go faster as I am certain the drug is making my tinnitus worse. I understand GABA receptors need time to heal, hence the need to taper.

 

Looking at the Ashton manual, it seems the method is much simpler, but if there could be side effects, I want to avoid those as much as possible, and I am doing "ok" with the clonazepam taper.

 

Is 10% the highest recommended taper % on this forum? Would it not be a good idea to do 15-20%?

I'm aware that the smaller the dose, the slower you should take it, so would it be unreasonable to do a 15-20% reduction, and then 10% as needed?

 

Thanks,

DMG

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Many people report having depression and sedation when crossing over to Valium. My personal philosophy is rather the devil you know than the devil you don't. So if you know you're functional on Clonazepam I wouldn't risk switching to another benzo.

 

You are right, the Ashton method is simpler because Valium is available is smaller doses. But once again, I personally wouldn't risk possible other side effects when I know I can function on Clonazepam. Is it the Clonazepam that is making your tinnitus worse or could it be withdrawal making it worse as you are reducing your dose?

 

We usually recommend 5-10% every two weeks or so, but this is just to give people a starting point. We advocate for a symptoms based taper, in other words, letting your symptoms dictate your taper rate. It's not necessarily that you need to slow your rate down the lower you go. It's better to make decisions based on symptoms.

 

Have you been doing 10% every 2 weeks for the past 7 months?

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Many people report having depression and sedation when crossing over to Valium. My personal philosophy is rather the devil you know than the devil you don't. So if you know you're functional on Clonazepam I wouldn't risk switching to another benzo.

 

You are right, the Ashton method is simpler because Valium is available is smaller doses. But once again, I personally wouldn't risk possible other side effects when I know I can function on Clonazepam. Is it the Clonazepam that is making your tinnitus worse or could it be withdrawal making it worse as you are reducing your dose?

 

We usually recommend 5-10% every two weeks or so, but this is just to give people a starting point. We advocate for a symptoms based taper, in other words, letting your symptoms dictate your taper rate. It's not necessarily that you need to slow your rate down the lower you go. It's better to make decisions based on symptoms.

 

Have you been doing 10% every 2 weeks for the past 7 months?

 

So long story short, I had a noise exposure in January which resulted in heightened tinnitus for a week, but nothing severe, like at all. Looking back, it was blissful tinnitus. I have had very mild tinnitus for 2016-2022. Unfortunately, I ripped a huge bong rip, and could not sleep because the tinnitus got so "bad" (was not bad looking back). I had a panic attack and woke up with worse T. This would have been temporary if I did not do the below:

 

Here's where I messed up. I re-instated clonazepam after being off it for a year.

I had been on .5 mg/day for 4 years from 2016-2020. I cold turkeyed with no side effects....or so I thought.

 

The day after I re-instated the clonazepam, the T went crazy. Insane. Like an electrical circuit in my head. This followed a distinct pattern of one day on, one day off for a very long time, and then just got worse and worse. It took me 7 months and speaking with another forum member on here with identical symptoms, to realize it is 99.9% the clonazepam that made it worse. Noise damage does not result in this crazy erratic T that I have, but from what I've read after hundreds of hours of research online, benzos do.

 

TLDR; I reinstated benzos after stopping cold turkey a year ago, T went insane. has been horrible for 7 months. Electrical and reactive.

I want to get off this poison asap. The re-instating of benzos and the tolerance withdrawal, and the reduction all make it worse. But when i dropped down to .5 from .75, I had 5 days of extremely mild T.

 

I have been on this crap for 7 months, I want to be off in 4-6 months.

 

EDIT:

I just started the slow taper from .59 mg waited 2 weeks, went to .54 mg, to answer your question.

 

 

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Can I please ask you to Add your history/signature.

 

This will really help us to help you. We need this type of info if you're going to ask us advice about taper rates etc. I just looked at some of your previous posts and I saw you had a hard time from 0.75 to 0.5mg. That was a 33% cut. My guess is you would struggle with 15-20% cuts considering your past history with benzo's. Just this morning I was chatting to someone who is having a paradoxical reaction to benzo's who decided to try and jump at a high dose because the benzo's are causing an avalanche of symptoms. Unfortunately jumping caused a lot more issues than tapering and she had to go back on. I'm telling you this because I understand the feeling of getting of this stupid stuff as soon as possible, but I also value the hard earned lessons from others.

 

If it were me, I would stick to no more than 10% and see how it goes. To me it is crucial to remain functional. But this is your taper and you have to do what you feel is best for you. We will support you whatever you decide to do.  :thumbsup:

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[27...]

Hi DMG1993,

 

I see we have some simularaties conserning Benzos and tinnitus, allthough I've never had Clonazepam.

 

First of all I would also agree on switching to Diazepam, because it's 20 times less potent than Diazepam and should make your withdrawal smoother. When I started my withdrawal and didn't know anything about Benzos, including the Ashton Manual, I thought I'd be done in a months. That was almost a year ago. So in terms when you say you have a fixed time when you want to come off, maybe consider you come off a safe and tolerable way.

 

I have some added tinnitus when I cut, but it faded in time. I've learned to cope with my original tinnitus.

 

Best of luck and hope you are well.

 

Many people report having depression and sedation when crossing over to Valium. My personal philosophy is rather the devil you know than the devil you don't. So if you know you're functional on Clonazepam I wouldn't risk switching to another benzo.

 

You are right, the Ashton method is simpler because Valium is available is smaller doses. But once again, I personally wouldn't risk possible other side effects when I know I can function on Clonazepam. Is it the Clonazepam that is making your tinnitus worse or could it be withdrawal making it worse as you are reducing your dose?

 

We usually recommend 5-10% every two weeks or so, but this is just to give people a starting point. We advocate for a symptoms based taper, in other words, letting your symptoms dictate your taper rate. It's not necessarily that you need to slow your rate down the lower you go. It's better to make decisions based on symptoms.

 

Have you been doing 10% every 2 weeks for the past 7 months?

 

So long story short, I had a noise exposure in January which resulted in heightened tinnitus for a week, but nothing severe, like at all. Looking back, it was blissful tinnitus. I have had very mild tinnitus for 2016-2022. Unfortunately, I ripped a huge bong rip, and could not sleep because the tinnitus got so "bad" (was not bad looking back). I had a panic attack and woke up with worse T. This would have been temporary if I did not do the below:

 

Here's where I messed up. I re-instated clonazepam after being off it for a year.

I had been on .5 mg/day for 4 years from 2016-2020. I cold turkeyed with no side effects....or so I thought.

 

The day after I re-instated the clonazepam, the T went crazy. Insane. Like an electrical circuit in my head. This followed a distinct pattern of one day on, one day off for a very long time, and then just got worse and worse. It took me 7 months and speaking with another forum member on here with identical symptoms, to realize it is 99.9% the clonazepam that made it worse. Noise damage does not result in this crazy erratic T that I have, but from what I've read after hundreds of hours of research online, benzos do.

 

TLDR; I reinstated benzos after stopping cold turkey a year ago, T went insane. has been horrible for 7 months. Electrical and reactive.

I want to get off this poison asap. The re-instating of benzos and the tolerance withdrawal, and the reduction all make it worse. But when i dropped down to .5 from .75, I had 5 days of extremely mild T.

 

I have been on this crap for 7 months, I want to be off in 4-6 months.

 

EDIT:

I just started the slow taper from .59 mg waited 2 weeks, went to .54 mg, to answer your question.

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