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Daily dry cut micro taper of diazepam/valium


[Mi...]

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Hi all

 

The last few cut and holds have been really challenging for me and taken about 5 weeks to bounce back. Not sure entirely why as could be a variety of reasons so thinking about going to a daily micro cut.

 

Can people please let me know how you have done this successfully?

 

When calculating my dry cut daily micro taper using scales, do I now focus solely on reducing the weight of the tablet, rather than always thinking in terms of the active ingredient, as with the cut and hold method?

 

How much roughly to reduce by? I have found 0.25mg cut and hold hard with mainly mental symptoms and at times functioning was not really possible. Now at 15.75mg.

 

Many thanks for all your help

MP

 

 

 

 

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Hi MP,

 

As you know, I’m only just beginning my own dry cut micro taper using scales, and I’ve discovered that other than deciding how much of my dose I want to cut each month, I actually want to just forget about the potency of the benzo altogether and just focus on the weight of the pill. It’s just too much for my brain to handle.

 

You’re talking to someone who had to call his sister to ask what day of the week it was when the day is clearly displayed on the phone  ;D

 

Anyway,

 

I’m dosing with 2mg valium tabs with the intention of cutting 0.5mg per month. If one of my 2mg tablets weighs 0.170, then 1mg must weigh 0.085 and 0.5mg must weigh 0.0425, but let’s forget about the 5 on the end to simplify things

 

I only want to cut 0.042 (0.5mg) per month, which would be very small daily dosage reductions of 0.0015, and because I have to take into consideration any inconsistency in the scales, I’ve decided to decrease the dosage every second day at double that reduction 0.003, which gives me a total reduction of 0.042 every 28 days, the same as if I was reducing daily at 0.0015.

 

Hopefully this will go some way to minimising inconsistencies in the scales.

 

For many, this will seem quite slow, however, when a 0.5mg reduction using the cut and hold method hits you like a sledgehammer, I believe this is a sensible rate with which to resume my taper. It can always be adjusted throughout the taper. I’ll also give myself permission to hold at any point I deem necessary.

 

Does this make any sense, MP?

 

Hopefully others will chime in with a better grasp of the mathematics involved.

 

WS

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How much do you think you would like to begin tapering per month, MP?

 

Think I might start with 0.25mg if that is possible.

I have read about some folk who cut for  certain amount of days (20 then holding for 8) then held or like you mentioned cutting every two days. I did not do anything yesterday (monday) but I really want to make a small reduction in the right direction soon. It is so tricky. Thank you both for your advice MP

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Don’t stress at all.

 

We’ll work through it.

 

So, am I right in assuming you want to begin with tapering .25 every 21days to see how it goes?

 

If so, I’ll work the numbers out.

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Don’t stress at all.

 

We’ll work through it.

 

So, am I right in assuming you want to begin with tapering .25 every 21days to see how it goes?

 

If so, I’ll work the numbers out.

 

Yes please 🙂

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Hey MP,

 

Have you looked at the top sticky here on titration?

 

There’s a video - How I dry taper my benzo using a scale.

 

It’ll help you familiarise yourself with the scale.

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Putting the 10g on the scale gives 10.014g!

Adding a tablet gives 10.190g. So assume 2mg tablet weighs 0.176mg?? Does that sound about right?!

Thank you MP

 

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Hi MP,

 

Do you have your scales on a solid flat surface?

 

No breeze, heat pump, or air conditioning?

 

Even moving around… walking and such can affect mine.

 

Weigh 10 tablets for me, but do it several times to be sure.

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Just so you know how I weigh…

 

I calibrate, then remove the calibration weight/weights, and then add a 5 or 10 cent piece and then the plastic cuppy thing  :laugh: and then press ‘tare’

 

Our 5 cent piece weighs just under 3g and I just do this so it’s not weighing at its very lowest range…

 

 

Then I weigh the pill or pills.

 

 

 

 

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Just so you know how I weigh…

 

I calibrate, then remove the calibration weight/weights, and then add a 5 or 10 cent piece and then the plastic cuppy thing  :laugh: and then press ‘tare’

 

Our 5 cent piece weighs just under 3g and I just do this so it’s not weighing at its very lowest range…

 

 

Then I weigh the pill or pills.

 

Just followed your instructions 10 2mg tablets weigh in at 1.760mg.

 

Does that sound about right. I dont know why I am so nervous.

 

 

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Ok!

 

So 10 of mine weight 1.709

 

Individually - 0.171, 0.169, 0.171, 0.171, 0.173, 0.169, 0.169, 0.170, 0.168, 0.172 = total weight of 1.703

 

So there’s a 0.006 discrepancy there, but I expected that to happen, and it’s not a problem when that 0.006 is spread out over 10 tabs.

 

Can you weigh each of your tablets individually whilst keeping an eye out for any fluctuations in the scale. Just make sure your scales are reading 0.000 before you weigh each tablet. As long as the scales are calibrated, if it’s not settling on 0.000 and slightly fluctuates, just hit ‘tare’ and then weigh the tablet. Write them down and post them to this thread as I have above, and I’ll calculate the total and we’ll compare it to your total weight of 10 tablets. Then we’ll work out your taper reduction for every second day.  :thumbsup:

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OK!

 

Good work!

 

Total weight = 1.757

 

So you only have a 0.003 discrepancy

 

So leave it with me now, and I’ll work out your taper reduction tonight and I’ll post it here tomorrow.

 

We’ll go from there, and work through any other questions you may have… anything you’re not sure about.

 

Sound ok?

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OK!

 

Good work!

 

Total weight = 1.757

 

So you only have a 0.003 discrepancy

 

So leave it with me now, and I’ll work out your taper reduction tonight and I’ll post it here tomorrow.

 

We’ll go from there, and work through any other questions you may have… anything you’re not sure about.

 

Sound ok?

 

Perfect - thank you.

You are a

If you need me to do anything else please let me know.

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OK!

 

So keep in mind we’re trying to keep this as simple as possible for you.

 

You want to cut about 0.25mg of API every 21 days

 

0.25mg of API is 1/8 of your 2mg tablet

 

If your 2mg tablet weighs 0.176mg then 1/8 of that = 0.022mg

 

0.022 is your total target reduction over 21 days

 

Here are a few simple options to get you close -

 

1) Reduction every 2nd day of 0.002 = 0.022mg over 22 days

 

2) Reduction every 3rd day of 0.003 = 0.021mg over 21 days

 

3) Reduction every 4th day of 0.004 = 0.020mg over 20 days

 

Because of the potential for slight inaccuracies in the scales and how small the daily reductions would be with your low target rate of 0.022 (0.25mg API) every 21 days, I have dismissed a daily taper.

 

I think it’s probably sensible to build in ‘holds’ throughout your micro taper to avoid the taper catching up with you suddenly. Possibly hold at the end of each 3 week taper period, or whenever you feel it necessary, even if that comes before the end of the 3 week target period.

 

Any questions, MP?

 

 

Edited - serious miscalculations

 

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1 gram is 1000 milligrams, so the tablet in this case weighs 176 mg. I would prefer to weigh the tablet by itself to get a more accurate reading without the 10 mg weight.

 

I'm doing something similar now. One of my generic 2 mg clonazepam tablets weighs 170 mg. I crush a few tablets at a time and put the powder in a little jar, then I use a little knife and a scale to measure my dose each morning. 85 mg of the powder contains 1 mg of clonazepam. My dose this morning was 18 mg of the powder or about 0.21 mg of the active ingredient. I'm keeping a log of daily doses using the pill weight, so I'm not doing the math to calculate the active ingredient dose every time.

 

I'm doing a faster taper than most, so you should probably listen to more experienced members in terms of schedules. My strategy right now is to reduce my dose just a little every day until the withdrawal gets too uncomfortable. When it gets to that point, I hold at the same dose until I feel comfortable in reducing it again. If I wanted to hold at this dose for a few days, it doesn't have to be exactly 18 mg. Anything from around 16 to 20 would be fine.

 

Getting accurate measurements with this scale starts to become difficult when weighing under less than 5 or 6 mg. When I get to this point in my taper, I'll hold at that dose for a few days and then quit completely. I might space out the doses at the end a little more. Instead of taking a dose every 24 hours, I might wait 30 hours or 36. Either way, I'm looking forward to jumping off for good and not having to deal with this every day.

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Hi m314

 

Thank you for your input, it is most welcome!

 

I’m not quite sure what you mean by preferring to weigh the tablet by itself to get a more accurate reading “without the 10mg weight?”

 

Do you mean weighing one tablet rather that 10 tablets or weighing one tablet without a 10mg calibration weight?

 

If you are referring to adding extra weight to the scale, I’m working off the theory that it’s better and more accurate when the scales are neither used at their low end nor their high end, but rather, somewhere in the middle range. 

 

If you are referring to weighing one tablet rather than 10 tablets, the only reason we did this was because doing this online poses limitations on our ability to avoid mistakes when familiarising ourselves with scales for the first time… there’s no second set of eyes in the room to pick up on any mistakes.

 

I’m not doing the math to calculate the API either. I have no interest in the amount of active ingredient other than to initially decide how much you want to cut from your dose every three weeks on a whole (in MP’s case). It’s all about the weight.

 

I feel there is a potential upside to crushing the tablets, especially multiple tablets at a time, especially in association with a theory hereforehelp and I were discussing in another thread, which I will share here shortly, however, it basically amounts to the potential for fluctuations in the API in each tablet because of the varying individual weights of each tablet within any given batch. However, the theory has no factual basis, as we are only presuming when it comes to how these tablets are made.

 

Weighing multiple tablets to gain an individual average weight and then crushing the tablets seems to eliminate the problem of any ‘potential’ inconsistency in the API between each individual tablet, based on the theory I will share below.

 

My only concern with this method is that whenever I add a small amount of any accumulation of powder just to top up my dose, it often doesn’t register on the scale, so I have a level of mistrust with the powder now. If you take a look at the top sticky in titration, you will see there is a video “how I dry cut my benzo using a scale”, and in this video he mentions he has the same problem. He has quite a large amount of powder left over from shaving the tablets which he originally intended to use, rather than waste, but found he had the same problem with it registering on the scale, so he disregards it now. Others may find they have no issue with crushing into powder, and therefore it works for them. However, because of my own issues with it failing to register on the scales, albeit in very smallish amounts, I have developed distrust.

 

Some members seem to be much more sensitive to inconsistencies in their taper cuts, where as others may not be, and can go at a much faster rate. With MP, we are working off the basis that she is very sensitive to her cuts, which is why she wants to go low and slow. She will be weighing her tapering portion (1 tablet) individually, and hopefully the other 7 tablets in her daily dose will average out consistently from day to day. 

 

Regardless, we have to choose a weight cut that works for her, but it is still trial and error.

 

I’ll share two or three posts below from the other thread.

 

Thanks for weighing in, m314, and sharing your own process. It super great when others give their feedback!

 

 

WS

 

P.S. There will definitely be holds built in to avoid ongoing taper cuts catching up…

 

We’re just moving through this at a slow pace to avoid information overload…  :thumbsup:

 

 

 

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