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Liquid Valium Micro Taper....starting 9/9/22


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Note: I am taking the commercially manufactured Liquid Valium 5mg/ml

 

On 9/9/22- I was thinking about starting a DLMT- tapering 10% every 2 weeks until I can't anymore.  Then I will slow down based on symptoms.  This taper rate is manageable now, but this last cut from 9mg to 8mg has been a little harder.  I am thinking if I can taper daily- this will keep things more even for me and I won't feel such a drop each time?

 

Here is what I have come up with (with the help of my husband)  I can't do math, especially now!

 

9/9/2022 13.3 13.3

9/10/2022 13.25

9/11/2022 13.2

9/12/2022 13.15

9/13/2022 13.1

9/14/2022 13.05

9/15/2022 13

9/16/2022 12.95

9/17/2022 12.9

9/18/2022 12.85

9/19/2022 12.8

9/20/2022 12.75

9/21/2022 12.7

9/22/2022 12.65

9/23/2022 12.7 12.6

 

 

Does this look OK and has anyone done the DLMT starting at 13mg Valium.  OR should I wait until I get a bit lower (like around 5mg) to start the DLMT?

Thoughts?

 

I have the syringes that were suggested- just ordered them from amazon.  Thanks to Libertas!

 

I read this in my research:  Is this true?

One rule of thumb is to allow at least ten weeks to go off the last 10% of your starting dose, 1% per week. Slowing down at the end is a good way to prevent protracted withdrawal symptoms from occurring after you are off the drug. Oftentimes those who taper by making larger cuts find that their worst suffers occurs after they reach zero, when the accumulated half-lives of the drug leaves their system in the following weeks. By slowing your taper to a crawl at the end you have a good chance of avoiding this danger.

 

If so, I want to do things this way and go slow at the end so I don't end up in this state!

 

Thank you in advance to everyone!

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When to do a DLMT is totally up to you. No one can tell you what will be more tolerable. I started micro tapering at a high dose because my symptoms felt tough on cut and hold. Unfortunately it's a trial and learn process for all of us. You'll just have to follow your gut and do what you think is best for you.

 

I looked at your numbers and if my maths are correct you're doing a 5% taper over the 2 weeks. (You might just want to double check my maths, I've tripple-checked, but yeah, the brain fog is real this side of the computer). Nothing wrong with 5% or 10% micro taper. It's just that you said you wanted to do a taper of 10%. Once again, none of us can tell you if your plan will work or not. The one thing to keep in mind is you'll probably not feel the cuts of the 2 week microtaper until around the 2 week mark or past that. That's the drawback of micro tapering - you just don't know how you're responding to the cuts until symptoms kick in and you need to hold. If you taper very slowly, then you're unlikely to feel strong symptoms and you can keep going. But if your rate is too high, then you'll only know when symptoms are already strong and kicking in. (At least, that's how it works for me).

 

 

I read this in my research:  Is this true?

One rule of thumb is to allow at least ten weeks to go off the last 10% of your starting dose, 1% per week. Slowing down at the end is a good way to prevent protracted withdrawal symptoms from occurring after you are off the drug. Oftentimes those who taper by making larger cuts find that their worst suffers occurs after they reach zero, when the accumulated half-lives of the drug leaves their system in the following weeks. By slowing your taper to a crawl at the end you have a good chance of avoiding this danger.

 

If so, I want to do things this way and go slow at the end so I don't end up in this state!

 

Thank you in advance to everyone!

 

We need to determine if we're talking about the same thing - protracted or PAWS. Protracted means you experience withdrawal symptoms for a  very long extended period of time - usually past the 24 months period. PAWS (Post Accute Withdrawal Syndrome) is the accute symptoms you experience straight after jumping. We have no idea what causes protracted withdrawal, and therefore we can't do anything to prevent it.  When it comes to PAWS though and experiencing accute symptoms when jumping some of this makes sense. I don't know where the percentages come from as I've never heard of the percentages, so I can't vouch for that. BUT, what could happen at the end of the taper with larger cuts is the accummulation of cuts could catch up with you and then hit you when you jump, making the jump more accute. In my opinion this is especially a risk when micro tapering for the exact reason I mentioned above - when you increase your taper rate it takes quite a while to materialise the cuts and feel it. When you're in the very low numbers you can't keep going on percentages as you'll never finish. At some stage you have to go linear. But this means your percentages are going higher, your cuts are getting bigger and they might accummulate to make the symptoms post-jump worse. I'm currently in this scenario. I am building in holding times for my linear taper to hopefully prevent accummulation of cuts post-jump. I hope this very long essay makes sense and answer your question.  :D

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Thanks Jelly baby for the reply- You are correct- it is 5%.  I asked my husband to calculate 10%, but perhaps he calculated 5% because he has to live with me!  LOL 

My symptoms recently caught up to me as crossed and tapered a lot (due to being to sedated).  I am feeling better now at the 7 day mark, but am going to hold here until I am ready to taper again. 

This is definitely a trial and error process- something I didn't know going into it, but have learned so much from this site.  I have remained functional and still working (part time- thank God!).  This brain fog is the WORST- I know you feel that too.  I can't wait for the day I don't have to deal with all of these calculations, brain fog, medication refills, Pdoc visits! 

 

Thanks again and I'll keep moving along, adjusting as needed!

 

Have an amazing weekend!!

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Jelly,

 

I am just tapering the morning dose right now- so 8mg Valium.  I didn't mention that in this plan at all!  The evening dose I am holding on for now, So, that's where the 10% reduction comes in.  So sorry about that!  My brain often doesn't work....

It took me a week for that to pop into my head!  There are times in this taper that my brain is actually working- have to capture all of that brain activity I get can get at this point!  It's always at inconvenient times too, but I don't care, just to know that my brain is still there is a relief to me! 

Ugh!  I can't wait until it goes back to me one day everyday!

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Jelly,

 

I am just tapering the morning dose right now- so 8mg Valium.  I didn't mention that in this plan at all!  The evening dose I am holding on for now, So, that's where the 10% reduction comes in.  So sorry about that!  My brain often doesn't work....

It took me a week for that to pop into my head!  There are times in this taper that my brain is actually working- have to capture all of that brain activity I get can get at this point!  It's always at inconvenient times too, but I don't care, just to know that my brain is still there is a relief to me! 

Ugh!  I can't wait until it goes back to me one day everyday!

 

Hey cooper

 

Maybe my brain fog is just too much now, but I'm confused. It shouldn't matter which dose you're tapering, your percentage is calculated on the total daily dose. Am I missing something?

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Yes, but I didn't calculate it that way on my spreadsheet.  I only calculated the morning dose.  That drop is from 7.3 to 6.7 which is 8.2%. I didn't want to taper to 6.6 to get closer to 10%, because the 6.6 freaked me out (the devils numbers LOL) and then 6.5 would be a 10.9% decrease.  So, I got as close as I could get with the cut and hold.

 

The total daily dose from 13.3 to 12.7 is 4.5%.  In my mind, I am just tapering the morning dose- but I shouldn't be looking at it that way.  I should be looking at the total daily dose.  So, you are correct- I am looking at it wrong by just looking at the morning dose.  I tried to copy and past part of my excel spreadsheet into this post, but it get's unjustified and all over the place.

 

You are correct- I was looking at it the wrong way. 

 

The first column is cut and hold and second is micro taper which I am going to try starting on 9/9.

 

Sorry to confuse you!  I am on the struggle bus right now....

 

 

 

 

9/9/2022 7.3 6 81.6 10% reduction in the AM 9/9/2022 13.3 13.3

9/10/2022 7.3 6 68.3 9/10/2022 13.25

9/11/2022 7.3 6 55 9/11/2022 13.2

9/12/2022 7.3 6 41.7 9/12/2022 13.15

9/13/2022 7.3 6 28.4 9/13/2022 13.1

9/14/2022 7.3 6 15.1 9/14/2022 13.05

9/15/2022 7.3 6 1.8 9/15/2022 13

9/16/2022 7.3 6 -11.5 9/16/2022 12.95

9/17/2022 7.3 6 475.2 500 New bottle 9/17/2022 12.9

9/18/2022 7.3 6 461.9 9/18/2022 12.85

9/19/2022 7.3 6 448.6 9/19/2022 12.8

9/20/2022 7.3 6 435.3 9/20/2022 12.75

9/21/2022 7.3 6 422 9/21/2022 12.7

9/22/2022 7.3 6 408.7 9/22/2022 12.65

9/23/2022 6.7 6 396 10% reduction in the AM 9/23/2022 12.7 12.6

 

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I don't.  I am starting my micro taper on 9/9.  The first column is cut & hold and the second is micro taper.  The cut and hold numbers are still on my spreadsheet incase the micro taper doesn't' work for me and I have to go back. 

 

It's confusing, probably only makes sense to me. 

 

Sorry

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Ok, I figured it out- Going to make it simple

 

On 9/9 Going to taper from 14mg Valium to 13.3 mg.  Going to do a 5% reduction every 2 weeks and see how this goes.  I may try the DLMT when I get down further in my dose.  At this point, I am just going to stick with cut and hold for now until I get lower in my Total daily dose.  I think my body will need the DLMT when I get down to past 5mg. 

 

What messed me up was I was going by my morning dose and my evening dose instead of just doing the Total daily dose.  I have switched to the total daily dose and now it makes so much more sense!  5% every 2 weeks is about what my body needs to remain functional at this point.

Thank you for questioning my taper, this caused me to take a very long, hard look and the light bulb went off! 

 

This taper is not for the faint of heart! 

 

Thanks again and I'm going to keep on keeping on!

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Jelly baby, Thank you also for the explanation when you get further down into the taper.  Yes, it does seem like I will be here for quite some time, If I stay at the 5% rate.  I will figure that out later though- but thank you for explaining.
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I'm glad you figured it out. You can't go wrong by doing 5% in my opinion. It should theoretically give you some breathing space. In the bigger scheme of things the quality of your life matters more than rushing of the pills.  :thumbsup:
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