help with Taper - Having a hard time with methods

Can someone please see if this video (expecially the 10 day recipe) is a Correct formula.  I know Bob7 is excellent with Math.  Do the ratios make sense anyone?

I didn't know if PG is better then vodka for those who want to avoid alchohol although I think it's in the alocohol family. 

I tried milk and constipation.  Dry tapering and feel worse.  I need help.  I feel horrible because of tolerance and kindled. 

Having such a hard time with stomach benzo belly it's horrid. 

Please help!!!!!!!!

The ‘recipe’ described in this video is based on one promoted by a member of BenzoBuddies.  When asked to provide evidence to support the claims he made about it, the member was unable to do so.

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Do you think Bob7 could take a peek at some point (I believe he is on vacation right now). 

 

you got yours from a compounding pharmacy, right?  May I ask what pharmacy that was?  I am so scared that nothing is working for me. 

Bob7 is very helpful so I’m confident he will be willing to take a look at the video when he returns from vacation.

In the interim, please allow me to clarify that the math in the video isn’t the issue.  The issue is the claims made about the do-it-yourself (DIY) liquid produced by the ‘recipe’ (e.g. it yields a solution so dosing is accurate; the liquid is shelf-stable so it is safe to make a batch and use it for multiple days).  To my knowledge, the claims have not been substantiated via appropriate laboratory analyses.

Additional concerns include: (1) to my knowledge, we have very few members who have used this ‘recipe’ with clonazepam (clonazepam has a lower solubility in propylene glycol than some of the other benzodiazepines) and (2) my understanding is that the narrator of the video was unable to successfully complete her taper using this DIY approach.

Here is a link to the potency- and stability-tested formulation my compounding pharmacist uses:

https://www.nationwidechildrens.org/-/media/nch/specialties/pharmacy/compounding-formulas/clonazepam-oral.ashx

Charlene, I don't want to further muddy the waters, but just wondering . . . why aren't you considering liquid Klonopin? Here's some info:

Clonazepam oral liquid is available as a 2.5mg/mL solution in a dropper bottle where one drop contains 0.1 mg clonazepam.

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like a far easier route for you. The klon is already liquified. All you have to do is measure and dilute. I would have used liquid valium if I could have tolerated the taste. It would have been soooooo much easier than making up my "witches brew" for my SLMT.

Just wondering . . .

Katz

Hi Katz, where did you find this information, the websites I'm looking at only list tablets and ODT.

https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cder/ob/index.cfm 

The 2.5mg/mL oral clonazepam solution is not available in all countries.  For example, it is not available in the US or Canada.  However, if memory serves, it is available in Spain, Italy, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Mexico, and Brazil (among others).

To discover if a particular dosage form of a benzodiazepine is available in a given country, individuals can locate the website of whatever agency is responsible for regulating drug products. For example, in the US, the agency is the Federal Drug Administration.  In Canada, it’s Health Canada.  In Australia, it’s the Therapeutic Goods Administration.  These agencies typically maintain a searchable, online database of the drug products approved for use in that country.

I wondered about this, too, Libertas. Thanks for the info:

The 2.5mg/mL oral clonazepam solution is not available in all countries.  For example, it is not available in the US or Canada.  However, if memory serves, it is available in Spain, Italy, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Mexico, and Brazil (among others)

I just found what I posted by Googling my question . . . but now I see I got an old site in Canada. Just re-checked my Googling. Bummer for Charlene if she's in the US.

Oh well, it was a good idea, but alas, not available here. Sorry, Charlene.

Katz

Bob7 is very helpful so I’m confident he will be willing to take a look at the video when he returns from vacation.

 

In the interim, please allow me to clarify that the math in the video isn’t the issue.  The issue is the claims made about the do-it-yourself (DIY) liquid produced by the ‘recipe’ (e.g. it yields a solution so dosing is accurate; the liquid is shelf-stable so it is safe to make a batch and use it for multiple days).  To my knowledge, the claims have not been substantiated via appropriate laboratory analyses.

 

Additional concerns include: (1) to my knowledge, we have very few members who have used this ‘recipe’ with clonazepam (clonazepam has a lower solubility in propylene glycol than some of the other benzodiazepines) and (2) my understanding is that the narrator of the video was unable to successfully complete her taper using this DIY approach.

 

Here is a link to the potency- and stability-tested formulation my compounding pharmacist uses:

 

https://www.nationwidechildrens.org/-/media/nch/specialties/pharmacy/compounding-formulas/clonazepam-oral.ashx

Thanks Libertas.  I think this is what I have to do -- need to use a compounding pharmacy.  You had good luck?  Would it be easy for me to do by myself using .5mg Teva Klonopin?  I'm confused as to what the ratio would be and maybe it's just as easy for the pharmacy to do.  Let's say I wanted to do 10 days worth myself. 

As long as I'm posting to you, do you think weighing powder in a capsule would be more accurate than shaving.  I'm sad that I can't just do this.  Does the powder of a .5mg klon equal on the scale if it was whole?  I thought I could take like 10 .5 pills.  crush them stir it up and maybe that would be more accurate. 

Thanks for all you do for this site, and thanks for telling me about that author.  I know I'm having such a hard time because of tolerance or whatever.  I'm on about 1.4 mg and have so much stomach pain and constipation. all I do is cry. Thanks again for all you do. 

Bob can you help me with my numbers.  So I saw a video link (attached in this thread) that says you can use a 1:10 ratio of 1 mg to 10 ML of milk.  That gives me .1mg for each 1ML if this.  So I wanted to prep 3 days so I put in 3 .5 mg in 15 ML of whole milk.  So my mg are .391 and all I need to do is bring the decimal to the right and drink 3.91 ML.

I'm doing this because of my consitpation of such large ML of milk.  But 15 ML is too small for three days (hard to get syringes in, ect and I don't know if such a small amount would distribute evenly.  I'm having a hard time, what if I wanted to double the MG to 30 ML for three days.  How, could that work and still be easy math.

or let's say I do 20ML for each of the three days (60) and put 3 .5 mg.  Concentration is .0250 mg per ML .391 mg divided by .0250 is 15.64 ML I would need to drink.  Is that right?

Thank you much. 

With Clonazepam's solubility in milk being unproven, this sounds sooo sketchy to me.

How do you know you have a solution, rather than a suspension?

I'm on 1 mg K and just learning about tapering after two severe panic attacks on the Doc's taper schedule sent me to the ER for Ativan injections twice.

Liquid Valium is available in the U.S.

Any chance you could hold/stabilize where you're at and then switch to Valium.  Maybe a combination of Valium tablets and liquid?

Or just liquid?  The liquid Diazepam is 5mg/5ml though, so you'd need 25 ml to equal 1.66 mg Clonazepam, according to the calculator: https://clincalc.com/Benzodiazepine/.

On the other hand I'm scared to switch.  I mean how accurate is that calculator?

Thank you for the reply I tried to switch to valium and could not do it. 

I hope you taper goes smooth. 

Oh no. 

Thanks for sharing your experience.  The Ashton Manual says that some people find it difficult switching from K to V.

Did you follow the Ashton Manual guidelines for making the switch?

I probably won't bother.  I'm too scared I'll get kindled again.

Oh no. 

 

Thanks for sharing your experience.  The Ashton Manual says that some people find it difficult switching from K to V.

 

Did you follow the Ashton Manual guidelines for making the switch?

 

 

 

 

 

I probably won't bother.  I'm too scared I'll get kindled again.

I wish you all the best Scoupier:)

Compounding pharmacy could not do capsules so they are doing a suspension where 10 ML equals my current dose of 1.3569 per day, so .13569 per ML.  Going down by .02 ML would bring me to 1.3369. 

He wants me to stay on 1.3569 for seven days and then go down by .02 the next seven days to 1.3369 and then the next seven days 1.3169 exc. 

I was not expecting this.  we are only trying for 14 days for now.  I was thinking it was going to be .10MG/ML. 

Does this make sense and does the math make sense. 

Compounding pharmacy could not do capsules so they are doing a suspension where 10 ML equals my current dose of 1.3569 per day, so .13569 per ML.  Going down by .02 ML would bring me to 1.3369. 

 

He wants me to stay on 1.3569 for seven days and then go down by .02 the next seven days to 1.3369 and then the next seven days 1.3169 exc. 

 

I was not expecting this.  we are only trying for 14 days for now.  I was thinking it was going to be .10MG/ML. 

 

Does this make sense and does the math make sense.

If you're getting this from a pharmacist I think you should trust them.  I would not dare to counterdict them. 

Given a liquid with a concentration 0.13569mg/mL ….

0.02mL of the liquid would equate to approximately 0.0027mg of drug (0.13569 X 0.02).

Compounding pharmacy could not do capsules so they are doing a suspension where 10 ML equals my current dose of 1.3569 per day, so .13569 per ML.  Going down by .02 ML would bring me to 1.3369. 

 

He wants me to stay on 1.3569 for seven days and then go down by .02 the next seven days to 1.3369 and then the next seven days 1.3169 exc. 

 

I was not expecting this.  we are only trying for 14 days for now.  I was thinking it was going to be .10MG/ML. 

 

Does this make sense and does the math make sense.

If you're getting this from a pharmacist I think you should trust them.  I would not dare to counterdict them.

Thank you.

Given a liquid with a concentration 0.13569mg/mL ….

 

0.02mL of the liquid would equate to approximately 0.0027mg of drug (0.13569 X 0.02).

Thank you