Clever name, proud of myself. Am a dude, though.

I mostly just want to know if my psychiatrist is wrong in how he wants to taper me off. And maybe get a virtual hug. I don't intend to spam. I have nothing to sell.

So, I have been on lorazepam (Ativan, Tavor) for years. 20 2mg tablets would last me months in the beginning. Slowly but surely I grew more dependent on them. I have practically all anxiety issues. I collect them like Pokemon apparently.

 

In the last three months or so I took 3mg a day. Then ran out and my psychiatrist was on vacation. I went cold turkey for two weeks.The withdrawals were hellish, but I don't think I am telling you anything new with that.

 

My psychiatrist wanted to taper me off in two weeks by taking 2mg every two days. Didn't work out, because after about 12 hours I started to feel like my heart tried to jump out of my chest like I am a cartoon character in love, had body pains and terror attacks. And slight hallucinations, depersonalization or whatever it's called (am ESL), the works. You know what it's like.

 

I told him it didn't work out and how bad it was. He called it bullshit and that I need more discipline.

 

Now he wants to taper me off in two weeks again with diazepam.

 

I feel like those timelines are too short. And I feel like I am not being taken seriously by him. Am I wrong in thinking that, or do I have a point?

 

Thank you for any and all information. I feel alone and scared because he was who I trusted.

Hi Lorazepamela,

 

Welcome to BenzoBuddies!

 

You’ve certainly done the right thing in finding your way here. Unfortunately your psychiatrist seems to have very little knowledge or understanding of how to taper off these medications. You would do very well to find yourself a benzo wise practitioner. I’m sorry you have had to experience such ignorance and lack of care from your “professional”.

 

You will find plenty of information and resources here, as well as a community of friendly, helpful members happy to share their similar experiences as well as answer any questions you would like to ask.

 

I encourage you to read through The Ashton Manual in the below links, as it will give you a comprehensive overview of these medications and how one should taper off them. Also look at the Colorado Consortium Benzodiazepine Deprescribing Guidance link

 

We are here to support you, so please feel free to ask any further questions you may have.

 

Again, welcome!

 

WS

 

The Ashton Manual

 

Planning Your Withdrawal (Taper)

 

Withdrawal Support (during your taper)

 

Cold Turkey, Detox & Rapid Withdrawal

 

Colorado Consortium Benzodiazepine Deprescribing Guidance

 

Withdrawal Symptoms

 

 

Again, Lorazepamela,

 

Very sorry to hear how your psychiatrist has treated you.

 

Please know that you are not alone here in this experience.

 

Plenty of virtual hugs to be here on BB.

 

WS

Thank you so very much for your reply and support. I showed my girlfriend your reply, and actually cried because I feel understood. I feel like for the first time someone actually takes me seriously.

 

I've read the entire Ashton protocol which is why I thought my psychiatrist is doing it too fast. I just needed to hear from someone that I am not just being dramatic.

 

Thank you again so very much. I wish you the best of luck in beating this shit. And you will. We're all strong, I think. And we all can overcome. Sorry, I am emotional now.

The recommended taper rate is 5 - 10% of your current dose every 10 - 14 days, some members need to go slower, so for that reason we encourage a symptoms based taper… wait until symptoms decrease considerably before each next cut.

 

Sorry, I just realised there was something I missed in your intro - benzo’s should never be tapered by extending doses out over 2 days, then 3 days etc. It creates interdose withdrawals as the drug continually leaves your body between doses. One needs to keep blood serum levels as smooth and even as possible through the taper, and when one stretches doses apart like that, blood serum levels drop and you go through continual interdose withdrawals. It’s madness!

 

WS

 

 

Lorazepamela,

 

You have unwavering support here now!

 

Just so we're clear, as I am not used to getting this much support, I'm a man. Like I feel silly saying that as your support probably isnt dependent on my sex, but I don't want to mislead anyone.

 

All the more love to you if you do it regardless.

 

And yes, thank you so much again. That's what I tried to tell the psychiatrist. That it felt like withdrawals would just start over again! Man, I feel like you know more than him.

Yes, no misunderstanding here, Lorazepamela, I know you are a man 

 

Just sending some love your way 

Thank you so very, very, very much.

If you click on the link below, you will find a place to specify your gender, as well as other information:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=forumprofile

 

 

If you click on the link below, you will find a place to specify your gender, as well as other information:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=forumprofile

Oh! That's super helpful. Thank you very much!

 

------------------------------

 

By the way, is there anyone here that knows how much 3MG Lorazepam would translate to into diazepam? The Ashtom Manual makes it seem like it should be 30. When I suggested that to my psychiatrist he just scoffed at me and went from 12mg to 20mg. I might have misunderstood the manual though, as I am not a professional.

Hi Lorazepamela,

 

The equivalent is 30mg diazepam.

 

As I mentioned, I think you really need to seek out a benzo wise doctor.

 

Your psychiatrist appears to be a danger to your health.

 

WS

I don't know  how to thank you more than just saying it over and over again. I would love to help you in any which way I can. Let me know if you have an idea. You have been a source of knowledge and comfort.

 

It makes sense now why I feel anxious etc. still. I am supposed to take 15mg now, after 3 days of 20mg. It makes me feel bad. I feel dumb repeating myself since after a while it loses a bit of meaning, but thank you so very much, once again.

This is a handy little tool, your doctor may be using it.  https://clincalc.com/benzodiazepine/default.aspx

 

Professor Ashton's equivalencies are a little high but she did this purposefully because she knew the needs of her patients but we're all different so what would be too much for one might be just right for another.  As with everything in this process, its all individual, this is why there can't be one taper that fits everyone, too many doctors try to fit us into boxes that don't work for us.

 

Sorry for the late reply, I actually got some sleep tonight!

 

I want to also thank you for your support. You've both been amazing.

Hi Lorazepamela,

 

You’re welcome, we’re here for your support!

 

Great to hear you got some sleep. Maybe experiencing some vindication that something was off with your psychiatrist’s guidance, as well as having a bit of an emotional release, played at least some part in a better nights sleep. Good for you!

 

The link Pamster has provided you above is really good tool. It converted your 3mg Lorazepam to within a range of 22mg diazepam and 30mg. Because the right conversion can be different from one individual to the next, you would tinker between 22mg and 30mg to find your right dose. You would probably start on the lower end of that and work your way up until you find the dose right for you. This is to avoid starting too high and extending the length of your taper unnecessarily.

 

What dose are you on at the moment?

 

Please do not let your psychiatrist directly switch you to diazepam overnight. This should never be done. These medications, although both benzodiazepines, are very different medications and the crossover to Diazepam should be carried out gradually over a matter of weeks or months.

 

Please read through the Ashton Manual. I provided the link in my original reply. If you look in the contents page, you will find ‘taper schedules’ or crossover schedules. Find the one for crossing from Lorazepam to Diazepam so you understand how it should be done. You could also print it out and take it to your psychiatrist, although I don’t know how it will be received… as many doctors have extreme difficulty accepting they could every be wrong. It’s called GOD Complex 

 

We’re here for you!

 

WS

 

 

I am on 20mg, and he switched me from one day to the other. In fact it was the same day. I had taken 2mg of Lorazepam in the morning to be able to face him. I had told him a week beforehand that I was addicted and he wasn't happy with it.

 

It knocked me out the first day. I had to apologize to my girlfriend and went to sleep at 4pm. And had a little accident in the middle of the night. Which is embarrassing as heck, but I feel like you won't laugh at me so I feel fine telling you. This persisted however, which is why I have an appointment with an urologist and a sleep lab, because there might be a very small chance I have epileptic seizures during sleep which relieve me. My gramps also died of bladder cancer, so wish me luck.

 

He had me on Ativan, got really mad when I told him that when I got withdrawals I would need more of it at once to stop them, and on my behest prescribed diazepam, and I feel like it's his last try with me. He won't prescribe more. I feel like I am going to go through hell, since my regular doctor won't prescribe any either.

 

I am on the lookout for a more competent psychiatrist at the moment. But it's tough because I will be in a psych clinic within 2-3 weeks. I hope someone there will know better.

 

I love you guys. Really do. My girlfriend also now more believes me. She was of the impression that I should listen to my doctor because he'd know best, even when I was feeling like crap. She now sees that maybe he's not the best at what my problem is.

 

Edit: I should also note that I had drank 13 bottles of liquor during the time I didn't have Benzos since I couldn't handle the withdrawals. Quit it with Ativan in that week. I told him everything but he didn't seem to care much. I have no cravings for alcohol. It was just a means to an end for me

 

Edit 2: My girlfriend, who was there with me, said he seemed annoyed and out of patience and just prescribed because I asked for it to be tapered off with. Which she said doesn't seem right. It was my second attempt (7 days), and he should  have been more understanding, or at least f'ing professional.

 

Edit 3: I should also mention I am 6'4 (193cm) and a 330LBS (150kg) fatty. So medication always needed to be in higher doses for me to actually feel anything.

Hi LP,

 

First of all, you are not addicted, you have developed a dependency. Don’t feel bad about that. There is no shame. That’s just what happens with these medications.

 

As for the Valium knocking you out…, for the first 3 weeks I would fall asleep in front of guests, so there’s nothing unusual there.

 

LP, please try not to jump to conclusions. The list of symptoms in benzodiazepine withdrawal is almost countless, and we’re talking in the hundreds. Although seizures are reasonably uncommon, they can happen, especially if someone tapers too fast or just stops cold turkey, and obviously if someone has a history of seizures. I’ve actually had a couple myself through tapering without allowing myself to stabilise first. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is all associated with withdrawal, however, I’m not a doctor, so it’s best to get checked out.

 

Your doctor has switched you directly to Diazepam and this means you will be going through withdrawal from the lorazepam whilst trying to adjust to the Diazepam. This happened to me when I c/t’d from clonazepam for 19 days and was then put directly on to Diazepam. I was still in acute withdrawal a month after starting the diazepam. But don’t worry, you will eventually stabilise. My main concern is with your psychiatrist. Not only does he seem completely incompetent when it comes to benzodiazepine withdrawal, but he also sounds like a cruel human being, and we don’t like to make a habit of verbally bashing doctors here. It’s not what we do. But it is indeed frustrating to see so many members having very similar experiences to your own in regard to their practitioners.

 

The most important thing in front of you right now, is to find yourself another doctor who understands that you need to stabilise and then taper slowly. We can support you and help devise a taper schedule for you here, but it is most important that you find a practitioner to supply you with the medication you need (on an ongoing basis) as you taper down. There are benzo wise doctors out there, but it takes a bit of searching to find one.

 

Alcohol - please avoid alcohol as they act on the same Gabba receptors as benzodiazepines, and in fact, are often referred to as “liquid benzo.”

 

This is the reason you feel a slight relief when drinking alcohol, however, it only heightens symptoms over the following days once you stop.

 

Alcohol also inhibits the healing process in recovery, as the receptors basically can’t tell the difference between the alcohol and a benzodiazepine.

 

It’s great that your partner is now on board with you, because it’s just so important to have that ‘personal’ support around you.

 

We’re also here to support you, LP.

 

Please do whatever you can in searching out a supportive practitioner.

 

Maybe try doing a web search for a benzo support service in your area, or looking up doctors individually to see what their medical interests and specialties are, do anything you can think of. Maybe your partner and friends could even help with this. You never know where it could lead.

 

Keep in touch, LP

I will definitely update you guys when there's more I have to tell.

 

I think with me, it knocked me out because I had both Lorazepam and Diazepam in the span of a few hours.

 

Again thank you, and I wish I had more ways to show my gratitude.

Small update: I'm in a clinic now. I had hoped for something more psychosomatic, instead it's just short term for medicinal purposes. And I want out. Not for the reasons you may think, I have no cravings or anything. I just loathe this place. 3 people in one room. No place to be alone.

 

 

I am on 2.5mg diazepam now, and feel alright, except hating it here.Went from 20mg  to 10 to 5 in 2 weeks. Now halved again and still feel alright.

 

How likely is getting a Delir or worse at that small of a dose, if 3 weeks ago I was on 20 or 30mg. I know that nobody can answer this definitely. Every person is different. But ballpark it?

 

I am thinking of leaving, as I am here of free will (others are not). The therapies they offer are all just to keep you busy, while I need proper psychotherapy next to being tapered off.

 

I know the last few mgs are the worst, and I know at some point my body will go "yo, buddy, ain't you forgetting to give me something?" But after such a small dose, which will be lowered to 1mg then 0.5mg, is a Delir likely? I feel like I can do that from the comfort of my home, not having to share my room with two other people.

 

Especially since I also have to deal with some physical illnesses which I put on hold in hopes of this helping me.

 

Thanks once more.

Hi LP,

 

So there’s an important factor when it comes to the half life of a benzodiazepine. Valium has a very long half life and so it takes much longer to leave your body, so it could take quite some time for you to experience the full brunt of your detox which is really little more than a cold turkey.

 

Example: when I went cold turkey from clonazepam which has a relatively long half life, although much shorter than Valium, I didn’t experience any symptoms until the twelfth day, after which I was hit by a sledgehammer. Now the problem with detox centres is that they taper you rapidly and then send you home as though their job is done, and to them it is, because they have no understanding of the acute withdrawal period. Often when people detox in these centres, they don’t experience acute withdrawal until they get home, and by this time the detox centre has wiped its hands of them, and the person is left to deal with the aftermath without any support at all. Essentially they have C/T’d in the detox centre when they could’ve basically done the same at home. Now, I’m not saying any of this to scare you, I just don’t want you to wonder what the hell is going on if you do experience severe acute withdrawal once you get home. Acute withdrawal generally lasts anywhere between 1-4 months and full recovery is generally between 6 to 18 months. LP, I’m just hoping that you are one of the lucky ones and don’t experience a severe acute period. Please know that we are here to support you through your recovery, so stay in touch to keep us informed of how you are doing, especially if things do get rough for you.

 

Please take care, LP

 

WS

 

Here’s a link

 

Cold Turkey, Detox & Rapid Withdrawal

Hey guys. Sorry that I haven't updated anyone that was so lovely and helpful to me. My rapid tapering actually went butterly smooth, and I have been at 0mg of any benzos for 9-10 months now. Pretty much since my last post.

 

I cannot express how desperate I was and how dreadful I felt. But I think you know full well what that is like. You helped me through really tough times, and I want to thank every single one of you for that.

 

Sorry I was a stranger, I just couldn't face that side of my life yet, not enough distance has been had. I was scared of feeling like I did back then when I would post here. I am an anxiety patient, so that might explain why I felt that way.

 

I love you guys, and I hope each and every one of you finds a way to be happy and healthy without these shitty drugs. <3

Thanks for coming back to update us and no worries about the late response, we get it.  I’m very happy to hear you’re doing so well.