Jana, could you give me your opinion - possible taper problems

Hi, Jana.  I was doing really well with my liquid K taper, but I'm afraid I might have some bad news about it. http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/sad/sad0047.gif  Last night I had my last dose of 3.0mg in pills and no liquid K. 

We had discussed earlier that after I reached 0.00ml of liquid, I would cut the pills down to 2.5mg and the liquid K  would start again at 9.8ml and I was to adjust down .2mls every night as before.  Two nights ago, when I was in bed, I got those excruciating upper thigh cramps.  I thought it was a "fluke" until I was at work the next day.  I got those same awful cramps again in a room full of people.  I sort of "hobbled" out of the room, trying to be as inconspicuous as I could, to the restroom.  http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/ashamed/ashamed0005.gif    Then it took me about 5 minutes of stretching exercises to get rid of it.  That's too close together for those type of muscle spasms.

I wonder, now that my dosage is going down, if my body (at this point) isn't healing as fast as it was before.  http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/confused/confused0090.gif  So what do you think I should do?  Should I cut my liquid K down to .1ml a day instead of .2ml?  Or should I just "hold" at the 3.0mg in pills for a while?  http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/confused/confused0082.gif  I know I should expect setbacks, but I can't help but be disappointed that this happened.  http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/sad/sad0020.gif 

NOTE:  Jana, I started this at work.  When I got home, something "struck" me.  We ran out of bananas earlier this week and 3 days ago, I ran out of orange juice.  I remember when I had these pains before, after consuming a bunch of OJ and bananas, the pains went away.  Do you suppose it could be a potassium problem again?.  This is hard to believe, since I take 80MEQ of potassium pills a day!  http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/confused/confused0036.gif Well, I don't know if the bananas annd orange juice help or not, but I'm going to the grocery store tonight and buy some more.  So, "smart taper lady", what should I do?  http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/confused/confused0006.gif

I appreciate any help or suggestions you or anyone else there could give me!

Sue 

http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/fighting/fighting0040.gif

    "Let the Force be with you - Beat Benzos!" 

Hi Sue,

The thing is that tapers are rarely, if ever, predictable. Whatever method we use for withdrawal, we are likely to hit patches that cause us some problems, and for no apparent reason. It does appear that you suffering some marked withdrawal symptoms - I think it would more sensible for you to stabilise at your present dose until things settle down.

What you said about the healing slowing down is not quite as I see it. We expect that cuts should be a proprotion of daily dose; as the daily dose becomes smaller, then we should be cutting by a smaller amount. It could be that you have reached the limit with your 0.2mls cuts - you have two choices as see it. Once you have stabilised, you either make the cuts less frequent, or as you suggested, make 0.1mls cuts instead. The key to withdrawing successfully is to take it gently and smoothly, but also to make adjustments as required. Just view this as par for the course, because it really can be almost expected. There is no need to worry about it, just take it in your stride, and make the changes necessary.

Hi Sue,

Though there are always surprises, you are still on a large dose of Klonopin. I don't think that you're anywhere near having to slow down as we do for lower doses. I'd go on as planned.

Those excruciating muscle things seem to happen in W/D. They are more mystifying because they don't seem directly relayed to the actual taper. You already have been your own sleuth. Potassium and Sodium change as either of them changes. A diuretic can also change this. So more Potassium is a good idea. Just be sure to get it in food form to avoid wearing a hole in your stomach.

I still use 500mg of Magnesium before bed. If I don't, those spasms may wake me. It's just not possible to walk to the kitchen while these are hobbling us. So I keep some 500mg capsules handy with water.

This wasn't a problem for me before benzo W/D. It's far better now post benzo. I do think that this is not a sign that anything new is wrong with your taper. It's something that can be managed by non-benzo means.

Jana

Hi,

I didn't check the maths, as titration figures are individual. I've looked at it again, and it appears you are dropping 0.5mg over 50 days, and your dose is now 3mg/day, is that correct? If so, that is pretty slow taper anway. I guess we should work out a standard way for us to display this information in our signatures. I'm open to suggestions!

Hey, Jana!  I'm glad to report, no more muscle spasms!    I am continuing with my daily generous dose of orange juice and bananas.  I tend to agree with you - that these nasty spasms are more a potassium deficiency than anything to do with my taper. 

My body is very odd - I have to take fairly large amounts of potassium and magnesium every day, just to stay normal.  And another lovely thing I have to deal with is a family-inherited Vitamin B-12 deficiency (4 generations so far!).  Once a month, I inject myself with 1,000mcl of B-12.  A nurse told me that this is a very high dose! My body just doesn't retain that one vitamin and two minerals.

A quick question...  When I start my taper again tonight, I think you said to use 9.8ml of liquid K, instead of the 9.9ml I used when I started.  It makes sense that this is right because this time around, I will be using 2.5mg in pills instead of 3.0mg.  Just "benzo brain"  syndrome and wanted to double check for sure.

Jana, also please check your PM's for a quick message.

Sue 

http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/fighting/fighting0040.gif

    "May the Force be with you!  Beat Benzos!"

HI Sue,

You would continue deducting 0.2ml each day. Just look at your dose columns. They should look even with 0.2 ml less each day.

Have you tried Methyl B-12? It's quite an improvement over B -12.  It offers some nerve protection. A mix of the two sounds good.

Jana

Colin, I know you addressed this to Jana, but it looked like your question referred to my taper.  If not, sorry I "butted in". 

Right now I taper by .2ml and if I stayed on that for 50 days, I would cut down by 10.0ml.  Jana is the mathematician here.  She has told me how to figure mgs from mls, but I don't have a lot of confidence in my math abilities.  She told me that 1mg of Klonopin equals 20mg of Valium (Diazepam).  So, I guess if you divided 10.0 ml by 20, it would be a .5mg cut. 

I am on exactly 3.0mgs right now.  I've taken it for 2 days without tapering, to see if my adding a lot more orange juice and bananas will help the spasms.  So far, I haven't had any more. 

I might mention that I already take magnesium.  I get 100mg in the multiple vitamins I take in the morning and 400mg in a prescription which I take at night.

Jana, please let me know if I figured the math right to Colin's question. 

And Colin, if you were asking Jana a question about herself, sorry I barged in.

Sue 

http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/fighting/fighting0040.gif

    "May the Force be with you.  Beat Benzos!"

Hi Sue,

One of the reasons to present our details on the forum is that there other people can check our figures. Colin takes a look at these sometimes. It's insurance.

Your Liquid is 1.0mg in 20 mls so one ml will have 0.05mgs in it. A 0.005mg amount will be in 0.1ml.  You're cutting by 0.2ml. So you are cutting by 0.01mg every day.

This does seem to be the limit that your repair ability will allow.

Jana