Tapering from Klonopin and getting stuck...

Hi, I've been taking Klonopin for about 6 years, 1.0 mg/daily.  Started taking it due to panic attacks and feelings of stress at work.  I've changed my lifestyle/work quite a bit in the past 2 years for the better & now want to stop taking the Klonopin.  I also take 50mg Zoloft daily and would like to stop that after I stop the Klonopin.

I'm trying to taper off and do fine until I taper down to .25 mg/daily.  (Have hit the .25mg problem during the past couple months trying to withdrawal).  Then I feel awful and go back up to .5 mg/daily.

I start to feel very anxious, my muscles tighten up in pain, digestive problems, have spasms of pain in my chest, trouble sleeping, tired and cannot concentrate whenever I get down to .25mg.

Should I try .375 mg instead of .25?  I've been cutting down every week by .25mg.  I prefer not to go to my doctor & get another drug as my health insurance doesn't cover checkups and I just want to get off this junk!

Thanks, Kiki 

Hi Kiki,

Welcome!

I'm Jana. Have we met? 

A 0.25mg cut of Klonopin is too much for just about anyone. It's like a Valium cut of 5.0mg. Have you followed Nevermore's( Sue's) story?

I'd suggest following her method. She is using a compounded Klonopin liquid. If you can't get that, you may have to make your own liquid K. You could use the mixing plan for Valium and subsitiute K.

You'd have to try out the dose between 0.5mgK and 0.25mg K. We'll help you to figure that out. Do you have a cooperative doctor, or are you on your own?

Jana

Hi Jana:

Thanks for answering my post.

I checked Nevermore's story...wish I had her doctor but my doctor thinks that cutting by half each week should do the job.  I will make my own liquid K if that is the way to go.

So what is the correct dose to use next?  .375 mg or something else?  For how long?

Kiki

Hi Kiki,

Yes, there are options. I tapered from Klonopin, so I fully understand the problem with splitting those tiny potent tablets. There are ways around it though. By obtaining liquid K, or if that is not possible, making up your own. It is pretty simple, and will make quitting far easier. Jana is the best persona round here for questions about liquid benzos, as that's the method she used to quit.

Hi again,

I'd suggest a small cut than that. You would be cutting by a quarter - a hefty cut. Since you have already experienced difficulties quitting, I'd take a more gentle approach. Jana will, I'm sure, offer her opinion of how to proceed.

Hi thanks Colin.

For now I increased my dosage to the .375 until I hear from Jana.

It helps a lot to have someone to 'talk' to about withdrawing, appreciate you all having this forum, I feel better already.

Kiki

Hi Kiki,

Yes talking with others that understand because they have through it, or are going through it, is of great benefit. I would encourage members to give their own input and views - after all that's all any of us can do. No one should assume that the team have all the answers - we do not! The idea behind here was offer a space for those withdrawing from benzos to help each other. We see our role more as keeping things on track, provide some resources, and maybe offer a fog-free perspective upon benzodiazepine withdrawal. It is important for you all to understand just how much you can help each other; passing on what you have learned from your own experience.

Hi Kiki,

Okay, you'll be making yourown liquid.  Get a measuring cup with mls marked on one side.Then get a measuring syringe from a pharmacy. Find enough little bottles to hold divided doses.  Even if you take your K. once a day, dividing into two doses can be a big help.

The next thing to do is estimate the dose of Klonopin that you need. We know that it's between 0.25mg and 0.5mg. The way that you are feeling is a good clue to what your dosage should be to start. I tend to think that going to 0.4mg and then tapering from that could be a good guess. You can make your liquid weak enough so that you can measure  a cut smaller than Sue's.

How often do you take your doses? I'll try some numbers for strength and ease of measuring.  Also what number of mgs are in your K tablets?

Once you've done the mixing once or twice, it will look very simple. Once the taper gets going, you should feel well enough. I'd expect you not to be 100%  without symptoms, but they should not be bad. Of course if you are willing to taper for a longer time, a start of 0.5 is more of a sure thing. It's your choice.  You can chose any number. 

Jana

Hi Jana:

The tabs are .5mg and dose taken once daily. 

Kiki

Hi Kiki,

I'm sorry that your doctor is uninformed. You can still do this. It looks like 1.0mg K in 40.0ml of homogenized milk will give you plenty of measuring space in that syringe.

Just as a start, we can assume that you will be able to cut 0.0025mg K per day. If you have no trouble with this, you can double the cut. This is comparable to a Valium cut of 0.05mg per day. That's the usual starting point.

I'll write out the steps later. I just wanted you to know that I'm working on it.

Jana

Hi, thanks Colin & Jana.

I'll stop by the drugstore & see if they have the measuring apparatus, otherwise may have to go to a medical supply store.  In the meantime, am taking .375 for the 2nd day & that does feel better than .25 although still having some withdrawals effects.

Would increasing my Zoloft for this period help at all?

Thanks again, Kiki

Hi, thanks Colin & Jana.

 

I'll stop by the drugstore & see if they have the measuring apparatus, otherwise may have to go to a medical supply store.  In the meantime, am taking .375 for the 2nd day & that does feel better than .25 although still having some withdrawals effects.

 

Would increasing my Zoloft for this period help at all?

 

Thanks again, Kiki

Hi Kiki,

I'm also doing a klonopin taper and was on Zoloft for about 1 1/2 years.  The problem with Zoloft and all "those other drugs" is that it kind of makes it hard to tell what side effect is coming from what drug.  Now that I look back, I see that when my Dr increased the Zoloft doses, I didn't do well.  Everybody is different, so it's hard to say how you would react to it.  I know how I would react....

Anyway, just wanted to share my thoughts.  Those SSRI's seem to affect people quite differently.  They work for some people and not for others.  I was in the "others" group.

Elwood

Thanks for sharing that information Elwood.  Maybe I better not mess around w/the Zoloft & keep it stable.  'Good' to see someone else withdrawing from Klonopin, I hope I can get down to .25 mg as I see you have...

Kiki

Hi Kiki,

Don't fool with your dose of  the A/D. A/D's are anxiety producing for many people. Both Effexor and Zoloft have that reputation. Heck, I can find some cases of this in my own neighborhood.

An A/D can also alter the amount of benzo in your body. Since you're counting on a very specific amount to be here, this isn't an acceptable effect.

Since you're already on the A/D, I'd just leave it as it is. When the benzo is gone, you can taper from the A/D with no benzo interference.

Jana

Hi thanks for the info.

I worked out a schedule and have started my taper.  Wish me luck!

Very good, kiki! 

You're taking the benzo monster by the throat. Just writing the schedule can feel powerfull.

Jana

Hi a question on tapering.

Started the tapering at .0025 mg less each day.  If things are going well, when can I increase to .0050 mg reduction?  And can I increase that again...by .0025 mg each time?  How long should one stay at the same reduction rate and when should it be increased and what is the maximum reduction that is safe for Klonopin.

I'd like to get off K as quickly as I can but don't want to push it too far and then relapse, so I would like some expert advice here.

Thanks, Kiki

Kiki,

I'm not sure I understand. If you are using the titration technique, you reduce your dose by an extra 0.0025mg each day. So, this would mean, in your case, that you are start off at 0.3750mg; the first day you'd be on a dose of 0.3725; the second day you'd be 0.3700; the forth day it would be 0.3675; and so on. You reduce your dose by a further 0.0025mg every day, unless it becomes too much, and the you should stay where you are at until you feel better.

Hi Colin:

Jana had mentioned possibly increasing the cut to .0050mg/day.  I was wondering when to do that and if it was possible to increase the cut to more per day.

Kiki

Hi Kiki,

Yes, you can try an increase. How fast we can withdraw is an individual thing. I do recommend caution though. Once you feel sure that you have stabilised and adapted to your present rate of withdrawal, and you feel no real illeffects, then you could certainly give it a go. I'd recommend that you either recalculate (don't go the whole 0.005mg, but somewhere in between; or cut by 0.005 one day, and 0.0025 the next. If that works out, then perhaps try a 0.005mg cut every day. You may find that you need to reduce the rate again later, even if causes you no difficulties for the present.

A word of caution though: your present rate of reduction very nearly equals a 10% cut over two weeks. By doubling your rate of withdrawal, your rate would increase to a rate of about 10% every week - a fairly ambitious rate of withdrawal! You also need to bare in mind that as your dose decreases, these cuts will account for a larger and larger reduction (in percentage terms) of your dose as you progress. As we get to very low (tiny) doses, this will not matter so much, but you are not at the stage yet. Yes, you may be able to do this at the rate you have suggested, right to the end, but there is no way of knowing until you try. Keep a diary, and be willing to revise your plans if things start to deteriorate. It's not a race after all.

Hi Kiki,

The 0.0025mg cut is the usual starting cut. Sue used this cut too and then after about two weeks,she increased by another 0.0025mg just as you suggested trying. This alsoworked for her so she upped it another 0.0025mg. This was too much for her body so she went back to that second cutt of 0.005mg. This seems right for her.

However she is on a starting dose of 3.5mg Klonopin. She can make larger cuts at that point. So I tend to agree with Colin that an increase is fine to try but make it a half step.

Okay, how many mls is that? For  0.00375 mg, it is 0.075mls. It's one and a half times what you were cuting in mls before.

Can you measure that with your syringe? Let me know if you can't, and I'll figure out how much to dilute some of your supply to get this number in a measureable way.

I did this a lot for myself. I needed to change the rate often.  Even in benzo-fog we can do what we need. This liquid thing has huge possibilities.

Jana

Thanks Colin & Jana.

Jana, I can't measure the .075mls, my measure is only in mls., if you can give me a way to do so, that would be great.

Thanks, Kiki

>Okay, how many mls is that? For  0.00375 mg, it is 0.075mls. It's one and a half >times what you were cuting in mls before.

>Can you measure that with your syringe? Let me know if you can't, and I'll figure out >how much to dilute some of your supply to get this number in a measureable way.

Whoops i meant .1 mL not mL regarding my measuring syringe.  I can measure in .1 mL.

Kiki

Hi Kiki,

Okay, that 0.1ml is much better.    I'll get back to you with the numbers.

Jana