HELP HELP HELP!!!

Hi,

 

I think I need need help badly. My name is Mike. I started to get Panic and anxiety back in 9/06. I was under a a lot of stress and depressed. It felt like I wanted to jump out of my skin. The docor prescribed Ativan to take (up to 1.5 mgs) at bed to sleep. I took that dose or around there for about four and half months. As well I was taking xanax during the day as needed (.25s or .5s ) never a steady dose. When Ativan stopped working I got a little scared and asked the doctor what  to do. She said increase the dose or try: and she started perscribing other things for me, Valium, Xanax Er, Remeron, Ambien. The valium I only took twice and didn't like it.

 

Here is my major problem. I got so scared at my tolerance of the ativan that I stopped it cold turkey, while still taking xanax and Ambien (not so regularly) as needed. Now I feel there is a problem. I seem to have lost the ability to nod off. I can be extremely tired, I mean extreme and my mind won't nod off. If I try and take nothing like I did this weeken I just stay up no matter how tired I am. I have had chronic insomnia before but this is different. I didnt know about Ativan'sand benzos etc when I did all this. Am I introuble now. My brain is not functioning the way it used to. I literally cant nod off if tired and need to take Ambien if I want to sleep at all. I no longer take the Ativan and I take xanax in low doses now .25 one or twice a day but I am still having those horrible feelings. Not being able to nod off or sleep. Band around my head. Pain behind my eyes.

MY QUESTION IS: Is this withdrawal? If I stopped cold turkey and then resumed not at the dose I was at, but just sporadically, how do I get my self normal again? I amreally scared because I have hread cold turkey can really screw you up. I need sleep. When I try and sleep with nothing my brain stays on despite my body being exhausted!

PLEASE I NEED ADVICE OR REFERRALS! I AM DESPERATE TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON WITH MY.

M

 

(PS I am also in Effexor 75mg)

Hi Therionnn,

 

Welcome to BenzoBuddies.

 

Are you taking any benzos now? How long has it been since you quit?

Hi Mike,

 

Yes, you can experience withdrawal symptoms after taking a benzodiazepine for a very short amount of time. I took Ativan for only six weeks when I tried my first unsuccessful taper. I had a horrible time, and went back up to my original prescribed dose, as my doctor instructed. After a total of four months of Ativan, I rapid tapered. I know what you mean, there’s insomnia, and there seems to be this whole other insomnia.

 

You’re not in trouble now; you just need to get control over how you are using your meds.

 

Ambien, while technically not in the same drug class as a benzodiazepine (Ambien is considered a non-benzodiazepine hypnotic), does act on some of the same receptors in your brain. It is generally thought that Ambien is best avoided while trying to withdraw from a benzo.

 

If you read around the forum, you’ll find that many here have suffered with insomnia. Some have found that antihistamines can help with sleep issues.

 

Colin’s asked some important questions.

 

What does your average daily benzo dosing schedule look like? Do you still take Ambien?

 

The idea behind tapering is to have a starting dose that you are stable on. Skipping doses or taking irregular doses can certainly affect how you feel, even from hour to hour.

 

We understand your desperation; we’ve been there. But that’s why we are here, to try to help you through this.

 

Take care, and welcome to the forum, Mike

Jan

 

Hi Mike and Welcome,

You have a conglomerate of drugs that  have additive effects, and none of the effects is sleep. That's tolerance. The times are gone when messing with your GABA receptors helped with sleep .You need to find a way to sleep without drugs, but right now you'll need some drug help with that.

 

Benadryl is just one of the sedating antihistamines. Others are available by prescription. Fairly large doses of melatonin are usefull.  The amount needed is quite different from person to person. A half mg knocked out Dave, but I now use 12.0mg.

 

I hesitate to suggest trazodone because A/D's will usually change the amount of benzo needed to mange W/D symptoms. I wouldn't use a therapeutic dose(150 to 600mgs). A dose of 50 to 75mgs may work.

 

Magnesium helps with muscle rigidity. Unrelaxed muscles can cause insomnia and they are so common in benzo W/D. Any form of magnesium can work. I use 500mg at bedtime. It also stops those intense  muscle spasms.

 

Valerian of good quality can help. Natrol makes a big hard tablet that's called Sleep n' Restore. Other herbals are available at health food stores but his Valerian seems to be the best.

 

You need to put yourself on one benzo and use enough to stabilize your symptoms. Then you need to taper. We can help you to chose a method and to carry it out. I push titration. It's the best way if you've had serious symptoms.

 

So get back to us with your daily med schedule, and look into using some of the sleep aids.

Jana

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for your replies. The only constant dose I was on was Ativan 1 to 1.5 at night for sleep. I have used Xanax throughtout the day but never on a schedule. My doctor wants me to take .5 about 3 or 4 times a day. Have I screwed anything in my head with the gaba receptors but stopping the ativan so quick. Is that why I feel like my mind won't shut down and dose? I literally don't dose off at all during the day and I can go for days without a wink. That's really frightening to me. I don't sleep and then drag myself around and dont sleep and drag myself around. When I lay down I get a fluttering in my chest and racing heart. I have been to the cardiologist who has said it is not my heart (stree test and halter) but something is fluttering and skipping especially when I lay down. Maybe it is just the thought of not sleeping after so many months (about five to be exact) Im surpised Im still alive. I need sleep but can't get it. I literally can't fall asleep though I am clearly exhausted. Can the benzos do that? Since I am such bad shape now I think I might have to be on doses of Xanax for a while. When I took a .25 today my heart rate went up to 91. Is that weird? Why would my heart rate go up on Xanax? I don't know where the anxiety ends and drug induced anxiety begins (if that is real). I feel lost and desperate. I have two kids and a wife and I am making their lives miserable. I just need to sleep and calm down. Is taking the .5 of xanax 3 or 4 times a day for now a bad thing to stabalize on? How long is to long. I think I might need it to get me through this. This is all new and scary. If I had known about the benzos I would have dealt with the insomnia and everything seems so much worse now. Idont think the benzos are all to blame but it is so hard for me to believe that five months ago I was relatively normal and calm and now everyday is a horror show. That's why I think it is something physical but all tests say no so far.

 

Anmore advice please?

M

Hi again.

 

I am still unsure of what you are taking now! What meds, at what dosage are you taking. If you have stopped: what were you taking, for how long, at what dose, and how quickly did you quit?

 

Sorry, I know that you suffering, and in a fog, but without knowing for sure what is your situation, I can't really comment.

Mike,

The benzos make the GABA that we have more efficient. Then the body's sensors find that it doesn't need to keep that much GABA while it has all of this benzo agonist help. This process of one upping the other produces tolerance. The old benzo dose doesn't seem to work anymore. Eventually the bottom falls out and we must taper from the benzo. That time period can be truly rough so we look for non-benzo and non-GABA affecting help. You are there now.

 

Your symptoms appeared when there wasn't enough GABA left to cover for the function of the withdrawn benzos. The benzos do need to be withdrawn but at a slow and even and controlled rate. You aren't doing this, and your doctor isn't helping you to do it. In fact, that "take as needed" instruction is  going to sabotage any effort to be normal again.

 

No one here knows exactly what benzo dose  is necessary to stabilize your condition. Knowing exactly what you take every day would tell us that, but you do something different every day. This puts you in a pickle, but it's a fixable pickle.  Your doctor isn't helping you. Now the job is your's.

 

The first step, and in your case a difficult one, is to out yourself on one benzo and find how much you need of that to be relatively stable. If you don't need other drugs for a real health condition, taper off of them or don't use them.

 

As I said, a small nightly dose of a sleep inducing A/D might be necessary, but I wouldn't use any more than is necessary. Most A/D's change the amount of benzo that you need to take. Since the idea of tapering is to have evenly and slowly declining benzo levels, messing around with anything that would change those levels will be sabotage again.

 

I do believe everything that you said about your sleep. I had well under two hours of sleep per night from February, 2003 to sometime in 2006.  And yes, we can go on for days without sleeping at all. It's the GABA deficiency when the benzo isn't enough or is withdrawn too fast. People really can live through this, but it weakens the immune system and judgement. So managing some sleep can't wait until you are benzo free.

 

You didn't have these problems before benzos. Try to remind yourself of that. You are in your right mind but having a really rough time.

 

What have you tried as non-benzo sleep inducers? Do you have any chronic health concerns? Do you prefer the effect of any one benzo?

How big were your benzo cuts when you tried to decrease?

 

Yes, your sudden benzo stopping efforts and your non consistent use are causing your symptoms. No you haven't done permanent harm. However the harm takes time to be corrected.

 

Right now, just know that there are answers. Other people have been just where you are, and they are benzo free and well. The way that you taper determines how well you will be immediately post benzo. So don't do anything rash or sudden.  You didn't get the information that you needed, but that's all over. You'll find real people here who can give real help.

 

So try to pick a benzo and find the stabilizing dose. I suggest dividing your daily dose into three doses even if it is a long half life benzo. Evenness is the goal.

 

This won't be a true crossover. You are on too many benzos. So just finding how much you need to stay afloat is your first concern.

 

Then you can chose a taper plan. Your condition as well as life will determine that.

 

Is your body rigid and not allowing sleep? Try magnesium. It isn't magic, but it does help. Can you use Benadryl? Will your doctor cooperate?

Jana

Hi, Mike,

 

I literally can't fall asleep though I am clearly exhausted. Can the benzos do that?

 

All that and more. I didn't have any problems with insomnia until I started taking benzos. When I tried to taper too rapidly from Klonopin, I couldn't sleep unless I took melatonin (3-5 mg) at night and something called Calms Forte that I got at the health food store. The couple of times I tried to fall asleep on my own, I lay in bed the entire night and did not sleep a wink. This went on for two months. Then I got help from online benzo boards. They helped me stabilize at a dose of Klonopin where I felt functional, and at that point I began a new--and much, much slower--taper.

 

I don't know where the anxiety ends and drug induced anxiety begins (if that is real).

 

It's very real. I was on benzos for anxiety disorder, and let me tell you, I had no idea how bad anxiety could be until I went through withdrawal. Withdrawal-induced anxiety is hell.

 

Idont think the benzos are all to blame

 

The further along I get in my taper--I'm almost done--the more amazed I am at how many of my problems were benzo-related. But you won't know until you get off the benzos and see what's left.

 

Jana is great with giving advice, so if you give her the info she asked for, she can be a lot of help. Right now, the main things are to stabilize on a dose of benzo that you can take consistently *every day* to feel somewhat stable (though not symptomless, just stable and functional) and to address the sleep issue.

 

You're in the right place!

 

Therese

And Mike, I am not surprised that your heart tests came back normal. Fluttering and skipping and that sort of thing is extremely common in withdrawal. Before I stabilized on an appropriate dose of Klonopin, I had heart skips for over two weeks straight, nonstop, several times a minute. Then one day they just stopped. And a new withdrawal symptom took their place, of course... But I just want to let you know that if your tests came back okay, there is probably nothing wrong with your heart. It's withdrawal.

Jana,

 

Currently I plan on taking .5 mg of xanax three times a day. About 7 AMish, 3ish and 10ish. Since it does seem to help my anxiety (which is acute at times) how long can I stay on the xanax for so I can feel relief from my stress and anxiety?

 

As far as sleep goes how come all these products only put me out for three hours tops, if that long. I mean I feel superhuman (but feel like crap). I dont sleep and my body laughs at the prescription drugs. Why can't I get the 5 or 6 others say they get? Is there anything out there that will give me close to 5ish? It's not Ambien, lunesta or sonata that's for sure.

 

Will I become tolerant of the .5s and have to up them as well. I am going thru a tough time now and need to stabilize. I am on 75mg of effexor as well.

 

Thanks for the help.\

M

 

 

Hi Mike:

I'll let the experts give you real advice,but I wanted to let you know your not the lone ranger in regards to your symptoms. I can specifically relate to feeling like superman and lousy at the same time. I felt and feel that too. I attribute it to being in a constant fight or flight mode 24/7. adrenalin pumping with no sleep,wears out your body. I also was physically hooked on xanax and through advice given here I switched to Valium to do a taper. While it hasn't been a road paved with gold, its much better than the w/ds from xanax. For me at least. Its rough, but tolerable. I've found that reaching a tolerable state that after a few nights I get more sleep. I use calms forte, during the day and either benadryl or Valerian at night if sleep doesn't come readily.

 

take care Bobbers

 

 

Hi,

 

Im still not sure what I should do. I am very scared. The 1.5 mgs (.5 3x a day) seems to control my anxiety. But I have been taking these things onand off since sept 06. Am I in trouble? I hear some people can never stop. How can I start tapering now? Do I need to be on a steady does for a while before I start to taper. Only been on .5 3x a day for a few days now. See other peost for ativan length and intermittent xanax use. I also have this feeling like I cant nod off to sleep. I feel physically exhausted but I can't not off. I dont have racing thoughts just my mind wont wind down with me. If I take 1.5 a day will it at least stabalize the weird withdrawal effects I am having? Will it really take 6-18 months for my brain to get back to normal? I dont know if I can handle that. How do I know what is my anxiety and what is Xanax induced anxiety?

Please answer as soon as possible!!!

M

Hi M,

 

I feel that you would gain from being disciplined, taking a regular dose each day. It's next to impossible to manage a withdrawal if you don't first have a regular routine. Since your dosing has been so irregular, I'd recommend that you try a daily dose of less than you have been taking for the past few days. You need to take enough to feel OK, but there is probably no need for you to take the maximum that you have dosed on some days. Also, the lower the dose on which you feel reasonably comfortable, the quicker your eventual taper and withdrawal.

 

Xanax has a short half-life. This means that it is metabolised relatively quickly by the body, so you are risk of experiencing withdrawal symptoms between doses. So, you will probably need to take it at least three times a day. Maybe you could try taking 0.25mg four times a day (1mg/day), but I stress, this is for you to decide and determin. Find what works for you, get stable (for a couple of weeks, at least), and then think about a gradual reduction in dosage. Gradually reducing the small potent Xanax tablets can be tricky, but we can help you with that.

 

You cannot know for sure where your anxiety comes from whilst you are still taking the Xanax. Of course, the Xanax is supposed to stop the anxiety, but after some time it just stops being effective - this is usually after some months of regular usage. At the same time, benzos can actually induce anxiety - a paradoxical effect - where the drug induces the very symptoms it is supposed to reduce. On the positive side, people usually find that overcoming the whole experience of benzodiazepine dependency gives them a new-found strength, and they end up managing their anxiety far better than they ever did in the past - with or without medication.

 

You can do this. The first step is take control of your dosing!

 

Take care, M.

 

Colin.

Hi guys,

 

The way this whole thing started for me was I was having a fine summer in 06 and then stressors and other things (wrok and home) came together visciously. Now I have a history of depression in my family and I have ahd anxiety in my life but never like this. I am usually quite calm. At least in body. All of a sudden I felt like I was jumping out of my skin, like all my adrenaline switches were turned on. I could not calm down. I wasn't having a classic panic attack like I was having a heart attack and hyperventilating it felt like all my juice was on. I contacted a shrink thru a family friend and she gave ame a whol story about rapid cycling and mood disorders and put me on Lamictal and Ativan to sleep. Now I wasn't having highs and lows I was just ahving this horrible adrenaline rush feeling. There were some crying jags but I am a sensitive guy and dont attribute it too much to a mood disorder just maybe depression. The lamictal was a slow titration and didnt help, I was switched to depakote when I mysteriously lost weight. Couldnt tolerate the depakote and went back on the lamictal, all the time swallowing .5 to 1.5 mgs of ativan to sleep for a bout three months or so. This was interpersed with times of using xanax to calm down when I was anxious. The insomnia I had from the beginning gor worse and soon I wasn't sleeping at all. Ativan was switched to Valium , Zyprexa was thrown into the mix for a bit. If I was taking the Ativan for three months or so for sleep (1 to 1.5 a night depending) did I build up a tolerance to that? Now that I am on the Xanax .5 3x a day will my past benzo use since 9/06 affect that and vice versa. I am also presently trying ambien cr with half a regular ambien to sleep at night.

 

I understand I have to get stable on a dose of xanax before I can think about tapering. Waht should it be. .5 3x a day is rough on me, tired, zombified. If I stop thexanax then the jumpiness will probably come back. I am on effexor 75mgs and hopefully that will help with the anxiety and depression they now seem to think it is and not some bipolar mood disorder but who knows. That's the scary thing, they dont know and only want to alleviate present symptoms. I'm sorry I ever swallowed an ativanin my life and started this whole thing but I do have to say that on the xanax I do feel almost normal again though fogged but people say that wont last.

 

(I saw a new shrink to get another opinion and he wants me off the effexor and on Seroquel to lseep with Klonopin for anxiety)

 

So what do I do?

1 - Just go back to the way I was, all jumpy and panicky?

2 - Has my benzo use since '06 screwed my GABBA up?

3-  when should I start thinking of tapering?

4 - Does it really take6 to 8 months for your brain to fix itself?

I have so many questions and I dont know what to do.

If any of this is unclear please let me know and I will elaborate on it more.

Thanks again for all your help

The problem is that benzos stop us from learning how to cope with stuff. Once free, very many - I'd say just about all in my experience - start to cope better with the things that cause them anxiety. If things aren't great for you now, maybe you have everything to gain!?

 

The dosage you take should be the least you need to feel OK - only you can determin this; it may take some trial and error.

 

I will try to reply more fully tomorrow. I have a blinding headache, and the computer screen is making it worse. I'm sure others will reply though.

 

Take care - things will improve.

 

Colin.

Hi Mike,

When I reached benzo tolerance and couldn't sleep, they gave me Seroquel. I wish that I hadn't gone along with that. It caused strange metabolic problems. I stopped it C/T in August of 2004. This month, my body is finally overcoming that Seroquel induced trouble.

 

Did you see the serotonin storm post on information here? Does it sound as though you have a subclinical case of serotonin storm? I'd think about that possibility.  Your doctor never will think of it.

 

One interesting effect of going through a benzo taper is that after the process, that pesky underlying condition has disappeared. It happens.

Jana

Mike,

 

Please don't worry about what is "your" anxiety and what is benzo-induced anxiety. Your brain chemistry changes once you have been taking benzos. You have a different biochemical situation now than when you first started taking the benzos. So the question as to what anxiety comes from where is really moot. Right now you don't have an anxiety problem; you have a benzo dependency problem. And Jana is right--with the tapering, that underlying condition may very well go away. But right now you are having problems with benzo-induced anxiety, which makes it difficult to think clearly and not fear the worst.

 

I discovered in my own taper that when I was relatively calm, I was fine with the taper taking as long as it needed to take, with not rushing it. It was only when I hit the patches of bad anxiety in the taper that I wanted to hurry up and get off. And you will not necessarily feel so anxious throughout the entire taper. For most people, things come in fits and starts.

 

I went through a too-rapid taper from Klonopin for two months, which really did a number on me physically and emotionally. I reinstated the Klonopin at half of what I started the taper at, and that was enough to stabilize me. I felt functional, though not great. I stayed there for a month before crossing over to Valium and beginning my current taper. So once you stabilize, it's up to you to determine how long you want to stay there before starting the taper. I waited a month because my body was completely exhausted from the messed-up taper and needed time to recuperate.

 

Don't worry about how long your brain takes to fix itself. Everyone is different, and even if it does take some months, you will not necessarily feel awful that whole time, like you feel now. It's your benzo-induced anxiety that's making you fear the worst.

 

How long have you been on Effexor? I wonder if that isn't part of your problem. When I was on Effexor, I could not sleep worth a darn. I would wake up every two hours. Then the alarm would go off in the morning, and I would pop out of bed feeling ready to go despite not having any sleep. I could run all day with plenty of energy. But by the end of the month of Effexor, I was dragging myself around--but still couldn't unwind. Did you notice any of your sleep problems worsen once you started the Effexor? Did you feel any better on the Effexor?

 

 

Hi Mike,

Did you see that Therese suspects the Effexor too? Both Therese and Colin have presented some straightforward and insightful ideas. I'd read them again. Bobers, too, has a good grasp of the problem.

 

You have been steeped in drugs. Your responses to new drugs may not be as expected. The real points are: You must really believe that benzos are harming you before you will commit to losing them. You must be stable on a benzo and it probably can't be Xanax. The parade of extra drugs must at least slow down. You will likely need a sedating A/D  just because insomnia is so devastating, and Effexor and Zoloft don't qualify.

 

Needing  a diagnosis is understandable. Is that possible? A lengthy string of disorder names doesn't explain a thing. It only describes the thing. This is the problem with mental health diagnoses. They are descriptions. They are not organic diseases. This is why the word, disorder is used and not disease.

 

If you list the problems as  I can't sleep  and I am anxious, you can address them  as things to be managed and overcome. If you call them disorders, you have a dysfunction description to live up to.

 

I've been labeled too, and it was a pile of damaging nonsense. The insomnia drugs created severe depression. They made me cry quietly, secretly, and often. Now I hear myself laugh. I laugh a lot. It was seeing that the drugs were the problem and that I was not the problem that brought me through this and to this nice spring day. People actually want to play with me now. Is your situation really different from mine? Is it different from the other recovered peoples' stories?

 

I admit that it can be an uncertain road, but the destination is clear.  I have the  devastation of life that benzos wrought to overcome now. However, I see a different world and it feels so good to laugh. I'd like that for you.

Jana

Is .5 3x a day too much start with? Been on that regularly for a few days. Should just make it .25 three or four times a day? Just break one of the .25s in half? The effexor was chosen because I had "success" with it in the past for depression. I was hoping as was pdoc that the effexor would kick in and remove the depression and anxiety or at least level it off. Right now I am sleeping with an ambien cr and half a regular ambien. Is this a dangerous raod to go down. Will it eventually stop working?

 

 

Thanks

M

Mike:

 

ask yourself if you are functioning on 1.5 X a day. I say if you are give it a little time so you can think straight. Believe me I know its tough to think while your worrying about everything in the world. I was prescribed zoloft to ease my anxiety so I cold turkeyd X and went into heavy withdrawal symptoms so I knew it wasn't anxiety, it was messed up GABA chemistry. I tried messing with the X dose also changing daily and it didn't work for me.

In regards to ambien The FDA just re classified it and 13 other sleep aids suggesting that it should have a black box warning as it causes dependency and withdrawal symptoms, my understanding is that it works in the same area of the brain as X.

Just so you know its 4 am here so Insomnia is my companion too.

 

Bobers

I hear some people can never stop.

 

Don’t ever follow the party line that “some people can never stop”! 

 

It might seem like it would be impossible to stop, but it can be done. The problems usually occur when someone tapers too rapidly. Symptoms flare; they get discouraged and believe that it means they simply cannot be off the benzos.

 

I understand how easy it can be to get discouraged. We read all kinds of stories of just how horrible withdrawal can be. But there are many who don’t suffer the worst. Think about it; why would someone be posting on the internet looking for answers, if they weren’t having any problems with this? Those who don’t have a hard time don’t look for places to post about the bad time they are having.    So all you get to read, usually, are the stories about how hard this all is. I spent a lot of time and energy worrying about symptoms I had read about, that I ended up never having.

 

The way this whole thing started for me was I was having a fine summer in 06 and then stressors and other things (wrok and home) came together visciously. Now I have a history of depression in my family and I have ahd anxiety in my life but never like this. I am usually quite calm. At least in body. All of a sudden I felt like I was jumping out of my skin, like all my adrenaline switches were turned on. I could not calm down. I wasn't having a classic panic attack like I was having a heart attack and hyperventilating it felt like all my juice was on.

 

The anxiety that I felt while still on Ativan was a different animal altogether. There’s being anxious, and then there’s the brain stopping, all consuming anxiety that Ativan introduced me to. I had a hard time believing it was Ativan; wasn’t that supposed to be helping me sleep? Helping me cope with anxiety? How could it be that what was supposed to help these things was actually making them all so much more worse for me? It does happen.

 

Right now I am sleeping with an ambien cr and half a regular ambien. Is this a dangerous raod to go down. Will it eventually stop working?

 

Yes, the Ambien will lose it's effectiveness too. I know someone who worked their way up to 50mg a night. 

 

The literature for Ambien now carries this notice...

Hypnotics should generally be limited to 7 to 10 days of use, and reevaluation of the patient is recommended if they are to be taken for more than 2 to 3 weeks. Ambien should not be prescribed in quantities exceeding a 1-month supply.

 

Studies have shown that a single dose of 40mg of Ambien (which is well above the reccommended effective dose) has similar effects as 20mg of Valium.

Hi M,

I'll write as promised, but I don't feel well enough to do this justice today. You know how this goes. I'll probably write again at 4:00AM Mountain time.

 

Right now, you need to think about finding a doctor who will support your efforts and not simply order you around. This is a common problem. I had to find my way through a field of not useful doctors too. Once you resolve to lose the benzo and get well, you need a source of appropriate benzo for tapering. Very few psychiatrists will help you with this.

 

Make a list of possible sleep helpers, but forget the Ambien. I know of no one who could use this for very long. It will interfere with your real taper. Jan just went through the whole explanation.

 

I wouldn't make any benzo change until I had some sleep support that won't backfire.

Jana

 

 

Hi Mike,

You are using 1.5mg Xanax daily. If this isn't causing interdose withdrawals, you may be able to start to taper directly from Xanax. Although Valium is the best for a slow and even benzo decline. you would need too right now to cover for a 1.5mg daily dose. That would be 30.0mg Valium. Although you could do it, you'd feel quite yucky and under the weather. It could feel almost depressing.

 

If you can find an A/D or antihistamine that is sedating enough and if you are doing well enough i 1.5mg Xanax perday, you are reasy to taper.

 

I'd suggest trying a direct Xanax taper to get rid of 0.5mg Xanax.  You can get it in 1/4mg tablets. Xanax is strong. Every little piece of it that gets lost in pill splitting is also potent. This makes pill splitting inaccurate for a strong benzo.

 

I told you how I began trying to titrate Xanax. I used water, a medicine dropper, and I deducted 1% of the starting dose every day. These were mistakes. It was a disaster.

 

If I were to do it again, I'd use homogenized milk with a ml or two of vodka as preservative. Then I'd make a liquid mixture using  three whole  0.5mg tablets of Xanax plus the milk and vodka. If your tablet is 0.5mg,  use three of them (1.5mg) in 60ml of milk mixture. This is a 1.0mg X to 40.0ml liquid mix. This is only a day's dose of Xanax. Take out 0.1ml of this mix.  Divide the remainder into at least three little bottles for doses.

 

Doing this will amount to cutting an amount of Xanax comparable to a 0.05mg cut of Valium. This is the starting place. If this works for you, you can stop throwing away the deduction. You can make up a supply of liquid Xanax and then not deduct  your cut by throwing out the 0.1ml. You would measure what you DO want to take. That would be 0.1ml less each day. Make a column showing the mg amounts going down by 0.0025mg or 0.1ml each day.

 

I suggest doing the throw it out thing just as a simple start to see if this is okay for you. If it isn't you'd make smaller deductions.

 

Xanax is very strong. It requires extra care in measuring. Xanax has a short half life. It requires dividing the day's dose into many doses through the day.

 

Later, you can assess whether or not you want to continue titrating directly from Xanax. If you are having uncontrolled interdose withdrawals, you need to chose Valium or maybe Klonopin.

 

In any case you need to get your dose down before the switch.

 

So, first find a non benzo way to sleep.

      Then practice measuring the deducted daily amounts.

 

Doing this should fool your body. Your body should be able to make the small correction in GABA supply that the small deduction of 0.0025mg requires.

 

If symptoms appear, don't make a cut until this stablizes again.

If this isn't clear, just say so. I'll look in here later.

Jana

 

 

 

Im not sure I understand. I am takin .25 at morn .25 at afternoon and .5 at ngiht. I started the cuts with the first two. Im not sure how I feel about it. The problem is I get breakthrough anxiety. What am I supposed to do about the anxiety, predates xanax, if I go off the xanax. It seems like all my switches get turned on and I can't calm down. No hyperventiliating or such just a feeling of anxiousness and oness.

 

I also seem to have shallow breathing, out of breathe sometimes. I notice when I breathe out I wont breathe in unless I tell my body to. weird.

 

I am going to try and stay on the .25 .25. .5 for now. How can I cut from there? I really dont undestand the water vodka mixture thing.

 

How does one deal with the anxiety and insomnia one had before these benzos when one gets off them?

 

M

 

 

Im not sure I understand. I am takin .25 at morn .25 at afternoon and .5 at ngiht. I started the cuts with the first two. Im not sure how I feel about it. The problem is I get breakthrough anxiety.

 

Hi Mike,

 

You’ve cut quite a chunk of Xanax at one go; you’ve gone from 1.5mg to 1mg.

 

You wrote before..

The 1.5 mgs (.5 3x a day) seems to control my anxiety.

 

Did you feel better on the 1.5mg than you do now at 1mg?

 

The idea is to start from a place you feel relatively comfortable at, not necessarily symptomless.

 

I understand your desire to move this along. Believe me; I do! But doing this fast won’t make you better quicker.

 

What am I supposed to do about the anxiety, predates xanax, if I go off the xanax. It seems like all my switches get turned on and I can't calm down. No hyperventiliating or such just a feeling of anxiousness and oness.

 

Mike, you are having textbook withdrawal symptoms. And you are also doing what so many of us do; you are attributing your current levels of anxiety to a pre-existing condition. The anxiety you are now experiencing is a different animal altogether. If you were to go off Xanax without a proper taper, I’ve no doubt that you would feel like you couldn’t calm down. Your body wouldn’t be able to keep up with the changes to your quickly lowered dose of benzo. It would have nothing to do with pre-existing anxiety!

 

 

I’ll see if I can further explain the milk mixture taper.

 

First, you need to have a measuring cup that has ‘ml’ marks on it. You also need a measuring syringe that has tenths of a ml marks on it; you can usually get a syringe like this from any pharmacy.

 

You buy regular old homogenized milk from your market, but don’t get anything that is fat-free. You need homogenized milk that has the fat still in it. Homogenization distributes the fat evenly in milk. When you use milk instead of water, the benzo will sort of attach to the fat in the milk, and then be evenly distributed in the milk because of the homogenization process that the milk has gone through.

 

To make a milk/vodka mixture, you remove a few mls of milk and replace them with an equal amount of vodka.

 

To get started, I’ll use Jana’s example that you would be taking 1.5mg of Xanax.

 

You would measure out 60ml of milk. Remove, let’s say, 2ml of milk, and replace it with an equal amount of vodka. You now have 60ml of a milk/vodka mixture.

 

To that, add your entire daily dose of Xanax, for our example 1.5mg. Let the pills sit in the milk/vodka mixture for a few minutes to get soft. After a few minutes, swirl the mixture around to disperse the Xanax pills.

 

Now remove 0.1ml of the Xanax/milk/vodka mixture with the syringe. This will be your cut for the day. The remaining mixture is your daily dose of Xanax; you need to divide this into the three doses that you will be taking for the day.

 

OK, so let’s stop there for now. Don’t worry about how you will proceed with further cuts, making changes so that you don’t throw anything away, whether or not you will need later on to make changes to your benzo; forget all of that for now. Let’s just concentrate on the first steps.