Hello Everyone,

Barto here.  Planning to taper off of Klonopin soon.  Just switched over from Xanax. 

 

Hi Barto,

Welcome. Do you have a plan for your taper? Do you have interdose withdrawals when using Xanax? Do you need something from us before starting your taper?

 

It would be good to hear something about how you came to take a benzo and what your experience was when using it.

Jana

Hi Barto,

 

And welcome to BenzoBuddies.

 

Yes, some details would help. How much Xanax were you taking and for how long? What dose of Klonopin are now taking and for how long?

I have been on and off of the for years.  I am now taking about 3mg. Klonopin per day.  I have switched over from about 1mg. Xanax per day (1.5 – 2mg. when drinking caffeine). 

 

All is well right now.  No cravings between doses when not drinking caffeine on either drug.  No cravings for Klonopin regardless of whether I am drinking caffeine.  Oh, and I take 2mg. I hour before bedtime, and .5 at 10am, and .5 at 3pm.

 

I plan to stabilize on the Klonopin, then taper very, very slowly.  I heard I should do 2% per every two weeks, but I think that may be too slow.  I may try 10% every two weeks to a month and see how that goes. 

 

I am also doing many other things, like exercising, eating well, relaxing, working hard, going to AA meetings, and positive things of this sort.

 

I have read the Ashton manual several times, and quite a bit of info on benzos from other sources.  Still, suggestions and support are both welcome.

 

Thanks. 

 

That avatar is really cool Colin, except it looks like you are having a hard time of it.   

Yeah, I too think that 2% every two weeks is very slow. A few need to go that slowly, but most of do not. I think your suggestion of 10% every two weeks or a month is a more reasonable aim.

 

My avatar is an artists' impression: it's uncanny!

Welcome to the forum, Barto 

I'm 6 months benzo-free now, and i took 25mgs of xanax (per day )

So you see it can be done with the help of all the great people here!

Hi Barto,

    I'm am old regular who recently reinstated. I am coming off of Klonopin soon. I also drink here and there. Just wanted you to know your not alone.........

CC

I stopped drinking several years ago.  The Doctor prescribed the dose.  He does not want me to taper yet.  Not until I get some things in order.  Also, the K really helps lower, mostly eliminate my tinnitus.  The 3mg. a caffeine dose.  When I drink caffeine I need almost twice the amount of benzos.  I am very sensitive to caffeine.  I have to quite caffeine, or at least get it under control, then get some things in order before I begin my taper. 

 

Good to know we are in the same boat CC.  Thanks. 

Barto,

Even if it's not ideal to drink while tapering, people do it once in a while. Alcohol does affect the same receptor that benzos affect so alcohol can send the wrong message to the receptors.

 

Caffeine can increase W/D symptoms as you know because you need more benzo when using caffeine. It increases symptoms but not by affecting the GABA receptors as many other things do. So caffeine use doesn't change the healing rate the way alcohol can; it just makes the symptoms feel worse for a while.

 

People are still human and humans don't always follow strict rules. Anyway all of us deserve good information and support no matter what our very occasional failings might be.

Jana

Hi barto,

    I notice that caffeine does make a difference when I don't drink it. I don't feel the Klonopin that much. What is GBAG or what do you call it?

CC

(ps) I'm going for it Saturday!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No drinking , tapering from Klonopin, staying away from caffeine,.

 

I hope I have found a friend here to taper with.

CC

Barto,

I haven't read the links yet, but there is something else that we could find interesting. Caffeine causes the resting phase in cell division to be skipped. The effects that that omission would have are unclear.

 

This is only my own unresearched musing: Insect poisons have been observed to be more effective(damaging) when combined with caffeine. Could this effect be caused by the omission of the resting phase in cell division in the insect?

 

Could many other damaging chemicals be made more damaging when in the presence of caffeine? Might some of these chemicals be  benzos?

 

This would be consistent in effect with your presented idea that caffeine affects benzo receptors.

 

If this is a real caffeine effect, could that effect be different or more or less pronounced in different people? Could a possible genetic difference explain how I could drink a cup of coffee right after my taper?

 

Avelox had the expected disastrous consequence for me post benzo. Could this have been worse if I had used a lot of caffeine concurrently? There may be more than one way for caffeine to affect any body part. Is it a GABA antagonist or something else or many things? 

Jana

I don’t know Jana.  I now caffeine is bad stuff for me.  I've read that it is actually a natural insecticide.  That is, plants produce it to keep insects from eating the producing plant.  Interesting, huh?  The websites I linked to are enormously informative.  I don’t understand the Ben Best diagrams and all, but there is a guy on SR who does (TCD). 

I had a doctor tell me years, and I mean years    , ago to cut out the caffeine. I would, for a while, then I would just start back up.

 

I did give up caffeine while withdrawing from Ativan; it did seem to make a difference for me. Now, I still go back and forth.  I do think I feel better overall when I just cut it out completely. I seem to have much more energy.

 

On the other end of the spectrum would have been my grandmother. She drank nothing, and I mean nothing, but good, strong, black, full caffeine coffee until the day she died....at 96! She said it was what kept her going! 

Hi All,

Prebenzo a doctor actually suggested that I drink coffee daily but not more than two cups. He said using it does have some advantages. I didn't take that seriously.

 

People do have huge biochemical differences though. Maybe one of those differences accounts for the many different reactions to caffeine. Since caffeine does not equal coffee, that doctor may have had some other quality of coffee in mind.

 

I began to drink coffee occasionally post taper. This isn't a problem for me. It could be a disaster for someone else.

Jana

 

 

 

Hi everyone,

I am an accidental addict after being prescribed ativan and then switched to .5 klonopin after a one time emergency visit....had severe migraine which led to a panic attack.  I had no idea as to what a benzo was.  I was on the k only 4 1/2 months when I started my water taper on Oct. 15th.  I am having a really hard time getting off the small amount I am  on ---.067. I have been mixing the k in 150 ml of water and pulling out 1ml a day, which is less than 10% every 2 weeks. But I am having severe w/d's even at that rate.  I was advised to go back to where I was before my last cut and hold until I felt better.  I am so discouraged to think I have been tapering for 5 months and I still have at least 6 weeks or longer to finish.  This horrible drug really has a hold on me.

Any helpful advise?  I know that updosing isn't recommended and this is the only time I have done that, but I was so unstable I felt it was necessary after making too large a cut. I guess I really didn't updose but actually made a dose adjustment.

Thanks!

CJN

Hi CJN,

It's usual for things to change at the low doses. This is when we have to slow down. I needed almost three months more to taper just because of this effect. This was the right decision though.  Low dose means 5.0mg in Valium terms or 0.25mg in Klonopin. You're well into the low doses.

 

Ashton reminds us that getting off the drug properly is much more important than how long the process lasts. When I grumbled about not being able to  leave Benzoland on January 1, 2006, Patrick reminded me that it was more important to do this right and never have to go back than to do it fast. That's so true. In my case that meant titrating by 0.01mg per day at the end. For some of the months, I had been able to cut 0.1mg per day. That rate just couldn't last for  the whole taper.

 

I don't count the reversal of a cut to be updosing. It's corrrecting the path. Holding a dose is also a good tool. Ashton calls it side stepping.

 

As the end nears, we  need to use all of these adjustment techniques. The result is well worth that extra effort.

Jana

Hi Barto,

May I crash in here and suggest that 3.0mg of klonopin is at least 1.0mg more than  people usually need to cover for 1.0 to 2.0mg of Xanax? Did you arrive at that K dose by increasing until you found what would manage your symptoms?

 

If this was just a quick stab at the right dose, you could be taking more than is needed and so prolonging your taper time by at least a third.

 

Since you will be tapering from Klonopin, you may want to read the recent K experience of Sue (Nevermore). She is titrating from K and not making those big cuts. She is already becoming very quick to recognize the times when a cut rate should be changed.

 

Sue is using a compounded liquid Klonopin at a 1.0mg in 20.0ml strength. Since Klonopin has a reputation for being difficult to taper, this procedure is a good answer to the problem.

 

Have you recently stopped alcohol use?

Jana

 

 

CC,

 

GABA is an acid that has to do with transmission of signals between receptors in the CNS. 

 

Jana,

 

I beg to differ about whether caffeine and benzos affect the same GABA receptors.  At least, I argue the point is not clear.  This link below shows that caffeine and benzos actually compete for the same GABA receptors.  You should find this very interesting reading. 

 

http://www.benbest.com/health/caffeine.html

 

If you didn’t understand it, we can call in Ten Chips Down (from SR).  He can explain it. 

 

Here are some good links, too:

 

http://www.doctoryourself.com/caffeine_allergy.html

http://www.doctoryourself.com/caffeine2.html

http://www.caffeinedependence.org/caffeine_dependence.html

 

Caffeine is very serious stuff if you are sensitive to it (as most benzo users [people with anxiety issues] are). 

 

I’d drink alcohol if I could, but there isn’t enough liquor in my state to satisfy my thirst, if you know what I mean.

 

Yeah CC,

 

We can taper together.  I am going to start soon, but not right away.  I have some major life events going on right now.  At some point in the near future I plan to quit caffeine and start my taper down from 3mgs Klonopin.  On the same day I quit caffeine, I will cut 1 mg. of Klonopin right away.  Last time I quit caffeine, I cut 50% of my Xanax use on the same day with little affect on my day to day life, slept great and everything.  I went from 2mg to 1mg. literally over night.

 

I mean the above with all due respect and sincerity, and I thank you all for having me here. 

Hi CJN,

 

Welcome to BenzoBuddies.

 

Try not to dwell upon what has happened in the past. The truth is that just about all of us can look back with hindsight and wonder if we should have handled our withdrawals differently. We vary so much in our reactions, it is rare when we can say with certainty that something was definitely the best or worst thing to do. You did what you felt you must do at the time - it's time to forget about it!

 

10% every two weeks is a reasonable aim, but an aim is all it should be. Even those have been able to cut at that rate regularly as clockwork can hit a rough patch and find they they must slow down, or just stay where they are at for while. The important thing is to get off benzos, so take the route that is most likely to be successful for you. If it takes a little longer - so what? I suggest when things get tough, you simply pause the taper - this seems to be the best way for just about everyone. I know that you are desperate to get off - I'm sure you will - but it's the goal that's important, not how long it takes you to get there. The truth is that those who push on ahead through tough withdrawal symptoms, often end up feeling lousy for a long time after they have finished their withdrawal. It seems that we need a certain amount of time to recover, and speeding up the taper does not actually speed up our total recovery time.

 

Again, forget about the updose. It's done no damage - it's just added a little time to the taper. Yes, those who regularly updose risk never being able to get off, much in the same way those who have an occasional cigarette never seem to be able to give up, and end up back on the same amount they smoked in the first place. Your one-off increase should been seen as blip, nothing more.

 

You are near to the end of your taper. You be benzo-free soon enough.