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Xanax To Valium Crossover


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Hello,

I am new to the forum and looking for information on crossing over from Xanax to Valium.  I have been taking Xanax for approximately 7 years, ranging from 2-4 mg per night.  The past year I have been around 2 mg, then decreased to 1.75 mg and then 1.5 mg last month.  I developed tinnitus at my last reduction.  I then tried spacing out my X dose to 1 mg at nighttime (~10 pm), 0.25 mg at 6 am, and 0.25 mg at ~4pm.  I didn't feel well on this regimen, and then added another dose midday, so now I am taking 1.75 mg X- 1 mg at night, and 0.25mg x 3 during the day.  I am still experiencing interdose withdrawls.  So I was hoping to switch over to Valium so I would not have all these peaks and valleys, and also dosing X 4x/day is difficult because of my work schedule and another medication I take (zinc acetate), which must be taken 2 hours after and 1 hour before eating, meaning that 9 hours of the day I cannot take anything else.  So Valium would be much easier for me to dose with my time limitations.  I have heard that the conversion rate from X to V is anywhere from 1:10 to 1:20.  I am looking for a sensible crossover plan.  Have other members found tapering off Valium easier than Xanax?  When I am completely on Valium, how long do I hold before beginning my taper?  Is it better to begin a DLMT vs. cutting pills at that time?  Any information would be greatly appreciated.  I am new to all this and just trying make the best decisions possible moving forward.

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I can only tell you my experience, and then tell you the recommended cross over.

 

If you look at ashton manual she has people take like 6 weeks to cross over from X to V. You can take a look at it if you wish, for me that was just too much time to cross over, i dont have the patience. My cross over was 2 days. I took half Xanax and half V. It wasnt very pleasant at all. I would recommend at least 7 days for a cross over to V. What i went through with just 2 days for a cross over was very broken sleep, a ton of anxiety and depression and feelings of just straight up fear like ive never felt before. It was pretty bad, but i did it. It took me about 3 full days of that before i started to level out. By 5th day i was fully assimilated to V and sleeping great, and feeling great. No more ups and downs, no more depression, just took it once a night around 9pm (10MG).

 

I plan on holding this pattern for at least 2-3 weeks before trying to taper because ive had 5 long months of suffering on Xanax and i feel so well now for the first time in forever i just want it to last for a while.

 

I also tapered off of V about 10 years ago, from what i remember yes it was easier than X but its still no walk in the park. I remember times when id taper and not feel anything, i remember tapering and couldnt sleep and felt like i had the flu and all bad things that go with it. There was no ryme or reason to it either. As you get lower in your taper the symptoms sometimes just pop up more because your cutting out more percentage. I did the 1MG cut every 10 days method, thats what i plan on doing this time to because it worked for me last time. I am a hard head though, and might not recommend that because its more than the 10% reduction they suggest here. Id rather be done with it than suffer for ever is why im ok with putting up with some really hard times to get to the end result. Its different for everyone though, youll just have to focus first on crossing over. You can dose Valium just once a day, 1.5 MG of Xanax is worth i think 30MG of Valium.

 

10 years ago i started on 30MG of valium and my Dr. started cutting me down 5MG every week. Looking back wow that was quite a cut, she didnt know what she was doing. It did get me down to 15MG before i hit a huge wall and had the benzo flu and felt horrible...thats when we stopped and i waited a few weeks to stabilize before continuing. Youll have to let your body tell you how much you can cut down. Remember that with V once you take a cut you have to wait like 3-5 days to feel the effects of it.

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It sounds like you might be better off on Valium with the interdose withdrawal. Most people seem to have success with the Ashton crossover and that's the only way we know how to do it without risking too severe withdrawal. Since you're at such a high dose and you need to function for work,  I think it would be best if you do it slowly.

 

If you're interested in doing a crossover I could look at the numbers for you.

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Yes, I believe at this time that a crossover to a longer-acting benzo such as Valium would be in my best interest.  I am having trouble with inter-dose withdrawals and just the logistics of dosing Xanax so often.  I came up with a schedule based on an approximate 1:15 ratio of Xanax to Valium.  I have read anywhere from 10-20, so I took the middle.  I know some people cross over faster, and some slower.  I also know some people will begin a taper during their crossover.  My plan is to keep things as consistent as possible, and then when I am just on Valium to stabilize for 1-2 weeks and then begin a liquid taper, which could last up to 2.5 years.  I plan on having more than twice the dose at night than during the day, since being functional during the day is important, and so is sleeping.  I know that Valium can be taken just once a day, but have read many people take it 2-3 times daily.  So here is my plan.  Any opinions you may have would be most welcome. Thank you.

 

                          6 am              NOON              4 pm              9 pm

                          O.25X            0.25X                0.25X              1.0X (currently stabilized on 1.75 mg Xanax)

 

WEEK 1              0.125X          0.25X                0.25X              1.0X

                          2.0V

 

 

WEEK 2              0.125X          0.125X              0.25X                1.0X

                        2.0V              2.0V

 

 

WEEK 3              0.125X          0.125X              0.125X                1.0X

                          2.0V              2.0V                  2.0V

 

 

WEEK 4              4.0V              0.125X              0.125X                1.0X

                                              2.0V                  2.0V

 

 

WEEK 5              4.0V              0.125X              4.0V                    1.0X

                                              2.0V

 

WEEK 6              4.0V              4.0V                  4.0V                    1.0X

 

WEEK 7              4.0V                4.0V                  4.0V                    0.75X

                                                                                                  4.0V

 

WEEK 8            4.0V                4.0V                    4.0V                    0.5X

                                                                                                  8.0V

 

WEEK 9            4.0V                4.0V                  4.0V                    0.25X

                                                                                                  12.0V

 

WEEK 10        4.0V                4.0V                  4.0V                    16.0V

 

WEEK 11        8.0V                -------                4.0V                    16.0V

 

WEEK 12        8.0V                  -------                --------                20.0V

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Hi waynebo23

 

I think you've done a really great job at this. If you look at this calculator https://clincalc.com/Benzodiazepine/ your final conversion should be somewhere in the range of 26-35mgs of Valium. Ashton's final conversion would be 35mgs but we do know she is usually more conservative and allow higher numbers to compensate for possible withdrawal. So you're still within the range. And 0.25mg X=5mg V so you're in the ballpark with your individual doses.

 

My only feedback is, I would start with the 9pm dose because it's your biggest dose and you're substituting with more Valium. If you start with this then it allows your body to get used to it before you start tampering with the smaller day doses. Well theoretically, that's my argument anyway. Hopefully the long half-life of the evening Valium could sustain you during the day when you start eliminating those doses. I'm just trying to figure out what would make the daytime at work easiest for you?

 

What I would do is something similar to what Ashton did https://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm at Stage 2. She crossed the night time dose to half way and then continued with the day time doses. So if you do your week 7-8 crossover only the 9pm (not touching the day doses), then pause the 9pm dose and start your week 1. Ashton got all the doses halfway crossed over (Stage 5) and then continued to fully cross the night time dose. After that, she continued with daytime doses again.

 

I hope my explanation makes sense. But your conversion numbers look good to me.  :thumbsup:

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Thank you for the insight.  I will take your recommendations (at that of Dr. Ashton) and work on my nighttime doses first.  It makes more sense to play with the largest dose first, and keep my daytime schedule the same until I become acclimated to the Valium, not knowing how long it will take for this to happen or how sedating the Valium might be compared to Xanax.  I would rather sleep well at night than be groggy during the day.  I will keep you posted on my progress.  Thank you for your time and advice.
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This is my updated crossover plan.  I cut my evening dose 50:50 in the first two weeks, then in week 3 got rid of one of the afternoon doses, so that now I would only be dosing 3x/day.  I thought a 2 pm dose would be better than a noon dose so that if I got too tired at least the workday is wrapping up by 4 pm.  The rest of the way is consistent with the Ashton Manual, minus the built-in taper she suggests. I plan on consolidating my doses to two per day, since this seems to be the most common dosing schedule I see on the forum for those tapering off Valium. Only time will tell if this is the best plan or not.  The best-laid plans of mice and men...

 

 

                          6 am              NOON              4 pm                9 pm

                          O.25X            0.25X                0.25X                1.0X

 

WEEK 1              0.25X            0.25X                0.25X                0.75X

                                                                                                4.0V

 

 

WEEK 2              0.25X            0.25X                0.25X                0.50X

                                                                                                8.0V

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

                          6 am            2 pm                                          9 pm

 

WEEK 3              0.125X          0.50X                -------                0.50X

                          2.0V                                                              8.0V

 

 

WEEK 4              0.125X          0.25X              -------              0.50X

                          2.0V              4.0V                                        8.0V

 

 

WEEK 5              0.125X          0.125X            -------                0.50X

                          2.0V              6.0V                                        8.0V

 

WEEK 6              4.0V              0.125X            -------                0.50X

                                                6.0V                                          8.0V

 

WEEK 7              4.0V              8.0V                -------                0.50X

                                                                                                8.0V

 

WEEK 8              4.0V                8.0V                -------                0.25X

                                                                                                12.0V

 

WEEK 9              4.0V                8.0V                -------                16.0V

 

WEEK 10          12.0V            -------                -------                16.0V

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from my experience please take time as Ashton Manual as most of the time when I started to go valium I found like depression

most important thing is to develop steady plasma concentration level of valium so take as much time but go slowly to valium ...it is good decision ...but everybody is different..

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I can just give you my theoretical knowledge because I don't have experience with Xanax or substitution. If you are stable at dosing 4x a day I would be hesitant to combine dosages in the middle of a substition. I think it's much safer to fully cross over and then combine doses.

 

But I don't speak from experience just what my head is telling me. What you could do is ask the Valium people if you're unsure Valium Tapering Support. They will probably know better than I do if your above approach could work. 

 

Also I've read some threads where people said Valium is sedating but it doesn't necessarily make them sleep and keep them asleep when they cross over - they slept much better on Xanax. I just want you to have the full picture and right expectations when you do this.

 

I do believe you've systematically done the built-in taper. in your schedule. Your starting dose is equal to 35mg Valium according to Ashton and your final  dose once the cross over is completed is 28mg Valium.

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Thank you for your insight.  Hopefully this schedule will meet all the criteria for a successful crossover.

 

                            6am              NOON              4pm              9pm

                            0.25X            0.25X                0.25X            1.0X (current dose of 1.75 mg Xanax)

 

WEEK 1                0.25X            0.25X                0.25X              0.75X

                                                                                                4.0V

 

WEEK 2                0.25X            0.25X                0.25X              0.5X

                                                                                                8.0V           

 

WEEK 3                0.125X          0.25X                0.25X              0.5X

                          2.0V                                                              8.0V

 

WEEK 4                0.125X          0.25X                0.125X            0.5X

                          2.0V                                      2.0V                8.0V

 

WEEK 5                0.125X          0.125X              0.125X            0.5X

                          2.0V              2.0V                  2.0V                8.0V

 

WEEK 6                4.0V                0.125X            0.125X            0.5X                                                     

                                                  2.0V                2.0V                8.0V

 

WEEK 7                4.0V                0.125X            4.0V                0.5X

                                                  2.0V                                        8.0V

 

WEEK 8                4.0V                4.0V                4.0V                0.5X

                                                                                                8.0V

 

WEEK 9                4.0V                4.0V                4.0V                0.25X

                                                                                                12.0V

 

WEEK 10              4.0V                4.0V                4.0V                16.0V

 

WEEK 11              8.0V                -------              4.0V                16.0V

 

WEEK 12              8.0V                -------                -------              20.0V

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This looks good to me. We don't really have criteria for a crossover other than the Ashton guidelines. If we did it would be straightforward. I'm just having a conversation with you so we can exchange ideas on what would hopefully be the least disruptive in your situation and what you feel most comfortable with.  :thumbsup:
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