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Tapper down Plan for Clonazepam - Seeking advise


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Hello Jelly Belly and Libertas,

 

First question.

 

I have the liquid Clonazepam. It´s 2.5 mg / ml. It´s called Klodex. A generic brand recommended by my local psychiatrist.

 

Today I bought a set of syringes. From 0.3 ml, 0.5 ml, 1 ml, 3 ml, 5 ml and 10 ml.

 

The liquid is dense, it seems to be oily, probably propylene glycol?

 

I am able suck the liquid with the small syringes. From my view is better to use micro syringes vs the bottle dropper (It´s a small glass bottle with a plastic dropper attached to the tip) to ensure accuracy?

 

My current dose of 0.35 mg of Clonazepam which is the equivalent to 0.14 ml of liquid Clonazepam.

 

Which is be the best way to measure the liquid Clonazepam to prepare the solution?

 

I am getting familiar with all this procedures and equipment. All your ideas are welcome.

 

Second question:

 

How long it takes to notice  new syptoms after a reduction of the Clonazepam? I am aware that takes a few days to notice how a reduction went. One week? Two weeks? Is every body different? Could it be felt in two or three days?

 

A million thanks.

 

 

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Was a medication guide/pamphlet included with the Klodex?  Does it have a section that lists the ingredients?  If so, what are they?

 

If you didn’t get a guide, does the national agency that regulates medicines in your country have an online database with this information? 

 

For example, the brand liquid manufactured by Roche in Australia lists this ingredients for the 2.5mg/mL Rivotril drops:

 

Peach flavour PHL-014725, saccharin sodium, brilliant blue FCF, glacial acetic acid, propylene glycol

 

Source:

Rivotril - NPS MedicineWise

https://www.nps.org.au/medicine-finder/rivotril-tablets

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Hello Libertas,

 

Thanks for your answer.

 

There is no information about the ingredients anywhere online. None in its guide as well. I just called the laboratory and they said that will provide me the information later today.

 

How do you handle the Clonazepam liquid to get precise doses?

 

Here is my idea so far:

 

Using the 0.3 mL micro syringe I can remove 0.14 ml of liquid Clonazepam which is the equivalent to 0.35 Mg of Clonazepam (My current dose) . I did it last night and is easily doable. The micro syringe fits perfectly well in the dropper tip and it doesn´t leak. 

 

Poor the 0.14 ml of liquid Clonazepam in 99.86 Ml of filtered water, to have a 100 cc solution. Shake it well.  My local psychiatrist confirmed that I could mix the solution with water or juice.

 

Having that 100 ml solution prepared I could start to DMT the first 7% (for example) in one week, removing daily 1 ml of that 100 mL solution.

 

Using a micro syringe of 0.3 mL gives me confidence that I will use an accurate amount of liquid Clonazepam vs the bottle dropper.

 

All your ideas are welcome.

 

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You’re most welcome, Eaubleu.

 

The time, energy, and thought you have devoted to preparing for and planning your taper is an example to us all.

 

Please do let us know what you find out from the laboratory.  We are always on the lookout for liquid formulations of clonazepam.

 

The approach you’ve outlined is sound.  Your use of multiple strategies to maximize the likelihood of getting accurate doses is particularly impressive.  If you use those strategies consistently, you will also maximize the likelihood of getting precise doses.

 

Re: the question in your earlier post about how long it takes to notice a reduction …

 

This is difficult to answer, especially if you are microtapering on a daily basis. One of the disadvantages of daily microtapering (especially benzodiazepines with longer half-lives) is that it presents the possibility that withdrawal effects will accumulate (become superimposed on one another) and eventually reach a tipping point where they become intolerable.  If this happens, there’s no way to know which reduction (or series of reductions) was responsible.  One strategy you can use to minimize the likelihood of this ‘hitting a brick wall’ effect is to keep an eye on your taper rate (i.e. percent reduction over time).  Another is to build holds into your taper to give your body time to catch-up/process the reductions made up until that point.  I’ve included a link below to an approach developed by one of the moderators at Surviving Antidepressants that incorporates these strategies.

 

You’ve also identified another reason your question is difficult to answer — everyone is different.  We all have to discover our unique ‘withdrawal pattern’ for ourselves via experimentation.  Based on clonazepam’s half-life, I’ve read it can take from 1 to 2 weeks to fully ‘register’ a dose reduction if one is minitapering (i.e. making ‘small enough to be tolerable’ dose reductions and then holding until withdrawal effects emerge, peak, and stabilize).

 

Link:

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering - Tapering - Surviving Antidepressants

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/17671-the-brassmonkey-slide-method-of-micro-tapering/

 

 

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Libertas has given you a wealth of information. With regards to symptoms and micro tapering. When we do cut and hold most people feel symptoms within 3-5 days. I always feel my symptoms on day 5, hit me like a freight train. With micro tapering I don't think you'll feel anything in that usual time frame. I don't have scientific evidence to back it up, it's just from my experience. You kind of just wake up one day and start feeling it settling in like a fog.

 

Also the way you feel symptoms is different. When I do cut and hold I get an onslaught of symptoms from day 5-10 gradually easing over those days. Around day 10 I'll be back to my base line symptoms. With micro tapering I just feel meh all the time. My baseline is slightly more elevated but I don't get the onslaught of symptoms. I'm not sure if this makes any sense? I guess you'll have to experience it to understand it.

 

Anyway you're well prepared and ready for  this, so keeping my fingers crossed this is an uneventful taper!

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Hello, jelly baby.  My apologies if you’ve already described the approach you are using upthread.

 

Is my understanding correct that you use a combination of microtapering and holds and also monitor your percent reductions for your taper?

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Hello, jelly baby.  My apologies if you’ve already described the approach you are using upthread.

 

Is my understanding correct that you use a combination of microtapering and holds and also monitor your percent reductions for your taper?

 

Earlier in the year yes. After I contracted Long Covid I decided to slow down my taper because I needed to recover from it and I couldn't afford to suffer from benzo withdrawal and LC. I had to recover to get back to work, so I slowed down my taper considerably to 5% every two weeks overall. However that's not how I was tapering.  :D  It's a little confusing. My tapering percentage was 7.5% every two weeks but I was only tapering for 7 days and then holding for 3 days. This reduced my overall percentage to 5%/14 days. It worked better for me to have days inbetween where I held my dose than continuous tapering.

 

I hope all this makes sense.  :)

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Thank you, jelly baby.  That’s what I thought you were doing.  Including periodic holds versus continuous daily microtapering makes good sense to me. :)
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Jelly Baby and Libertas,

 

Thank you very much to both. That´s a wealth of information you shared with me which makes me feel everyday more confident about how to handle the tapering.

 

You may count on me to share all the information about liquid Clonazepam here in Mexico. So far I have found two brands available everywhere; Klodex and Kriadex. But none of the manufacturers disclose the ingredients of the solution. I have not received a reply from the laboratory that manufactures the Klodex so far but I´ll insist.

 

This is my fifth consecutive day feeling "normal". To stabilize the dose as advised was a good decision.

 

I am being able to sleep 6 to 7 hours. I had many zero-sleep nights before when I didn´t know what was causing my severe insomnia. My tinnitus and hyperacusis is low now. It was so loud one week ago.

 

Thanks again.

 

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  • 1 month later...

Hello Jelly baby and Libertas,

 

Hope you are very well and thanks again for all your excellent guidance.

 

I am writing you again to give you an update and get feedback.

 

Since November 13, I have been able to tapper down from 0.35 mgs to 0.17 mg, before bed using liquid clonazepam. In average I am dropping 0.05 mgs per day, I have been handling the daily tapering amount using my symptoms as a reference. My body has been able to hold well the tapering so far.

 

I can sleep 6 to 7 hrs. It's restoring sleep which has helped me a lot to heal. The hyperacusis and tinnitus have been the main withdraw side effects. Sometimes has been very loud to the point that my ears almost hurt. The random anxiety and severe insomnia are no longer an issue.

 

The last four days have been very good days, my first four consecutive good days with very low tinnitus. Also, the feeling of depression has vanished as well. (I have never felt depressed in my life, but when I began the tapering a mild feeling of depression showed up) It seems that my body is starting to feel better with lower doses of this poison.

 

Low level of stress and the good weather here in the Caribbean are helping me a lot to recover. I noticed that even short travelling and mild stress make my tinnitus pitch go very high, so I am keeping a calm lifestyle to help my body to heal.

 

If I keep tapering at this speed, I should be able to jump in about 34 days. At what dose may I jump? All your tips and advises are very welcomed.

 

A million thanks to both.

 

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Thank you for the good news update, Eaubleu.  It sounds like you may be one of the fortunate individuals who feel better as they get lower in dose!

 

Re: your question about a jump or quit dose for clonazepam …

 

Professor Ashton did not suggest a quit dose for clonazepam, but she did suggest one for diazepam (i.e. between 0.5mg and 1mg).  At that low of a dose, her reasoning was the drug was no longer having any physiological effect.

 

A common practice in this community is to divide the quit dose Ashton used for diazepam by 20 (per Ashton’s equivalence table, 20mg of diazepam is equivalent to 1mg of clonazepam) to ballpark a quit dose of between 0.025mg and 0.05mg for clonazepam.

 

However, like everything else about benzodiazepine cessation, you are the only one who can decide when you feel physiologically and psychologically ready to jump.  Some individuals jump when they decide they can no longer accurately measure their dose.  Others jump when reductions no longer have a discernible effect and/or withdrawal symptoms are minimal and tolerable.  Others taper all the way to 0 because they want the reassurance of knowing they ‘have done everything possible’ to increase their ‘odds’ of a smooth landing and recovery.

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Hello Libertas,

 

Thanks again for your advise and precise information. I feel more confident now that I am on the right path.

 

I will keep tapering at the current rate then and come back with an update in a few weeks.

 

In the mean time I wish you a Happy and Healing New Year.

 

Thanks Libertas!

 

 

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I'm really happy to hear you're doing so well and hope this trajectory continues. I jumped at 0.025mg. But as Libertas explained it's really up to the individual. If your symptoms are under control then I personally think it's an emotional and psychological decision whether you're ready to jump at 0.025mg or whether you feel you need to go lower.
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You are most welcome, Eaubleu.  Your wish for a happy and healing new year is much appreciated.  I wish you the same (along with a wish for continued good weather and calming blue water in the Caribbean).

 

I am delighted you are feeling confident about your taper.  As you have no doubt surmised, our mindset plays a big role in our outcome when it comes to benzodiazepine cessation.

 

Please do keep us updated. 

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Hello Jelly Baby,

 

Thanks for your message.

 

When I posted my previous message I read your signature and realized that you jumped a few days ago. I am very happy for you, what a great accomplishment and I wish you a 100% recovery.

 

Thanks for your advise. Today was a so so day, tinnitus went up and I did feel a bit depressed again. But previously I had several consecutive good days so hope to have more in the coming days. If everything goes well I should be jumping off by the end of January.

 

I wish you a Happy and Healing New Year.

 

 

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Thanks Eaubleu. If your symptoms don't settle down then it will be good to hold for two weeks or so before continuing or jumping. Micro tapering has the disadvantage of potential accumulated cuts so you don't want to jump and then let your cuts hit you when you jump.  :thumbsup:
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Hello Jelly Baby,

 

Thanks for this last tip. I'll hold if symptoms don't settle down.

 

Fortunately this time did settle down again. Tinnitus is low and the depression feeling faded. I am noticing that I am having 1 or 2 so so days but then many consecutive good ones.

 

Last night I entered the 0.15 Mg range and I am still feeling well. Two nights ago I had the best sleep in years. It was calmed and deep,even with healing dreams. Hope someday I will sleep like that more often.

 

Thanks JB.

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello Jelly Baby and Libertas,

 

I wish both a very Happy New Year.

 

My tapering is going well, I am at 0.11 Mgs.

 

Tinnitus is my main symptom and you may imagine how annoying is being to me. I try to not pay attention to it but sometimes is very loud.

 

In your experience helping so many people here, how long may take for tinnitus to fade? Does it normally fade away?

 

Many thanks!

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Thank you for starting out our new year with another good news update, Eaubleu.

 

Was your tinnitus a pre-existing condition?  Or do you think it was caused by your benzodiazepine use?

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Hello Libertas,

 

Happy New Year and thanks for your quick answer.

 

I never suffered from tinnitus before and I am sure it's 100% caused by the Clonazepam.

 

 

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Regrettably, I do not routinely follow posts about tinnitus so cannot answer your questions.  Happily, ithere are multiple threads about this on our post-withdrawal recovery support board.

 

I found them by entering the following string in my search engine:

 

Site:benzobuddies.org tinnitus post-withdrawal recovery

 

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There isn't a timeline for single symptoms unfortunately and each person responds uniquely to the tapering experience. The general trend seems to be for full recovery of all symptoms after cessation to be anything from 6 months to 24 months. It doesn't mean though that the tinnitus won't go away earlier.
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Libertas,

 

Thanks for that thread, it make sense.

 

Happy New Year Jelly Baby,

 

Thanks for your feedback. Hope it fades away over the time.

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