Ativan taper & c/o to either Klonopin or Valium?

Hi all, I hope you can help me.   I only started on benzo's 10 weeks ago due to post partum anxiety/insomnia, but was put on a high dose, so I'm really dependent now.  I take 2.5 ativan during the day (1 at noon, 1.5 at 5 PM) and to sleep (I have major insomnia) I take 1 mg ativan, 1 mg klonopin + 7.5mg zopiclone + 250 trazadone, plus my antidepressant Pamelor.   Even with all of that I was not sleeping well at all until recently.  

 

I was taking up to 3 ativans in the day at some points, but not everyday, so I easily weaned back down to 2.5 and that's where I'm stuck now.   I tried lowering 1/16th of an ativan this week and I cried hysterically from anxiety, had major dizziness and brain fog, and had cravings for 5 days.   Now I want to wean another 1/16 today, but I can't believe how low my dose cuts need to be.  I use water titration.  I have tried larger cuts (like 0.25 mg), but I become completely strung out, extreme anxiety, couldn't sleep or eat, and can't take care of my baby.   My doc wants me to drop 0.5 weekly, and I just cannot do that, it's impossible for me, and I told her so.  I would need to be strapped down in a hospital bed or something or put in a coma.  By the way, I have no prior history of anxiety, depression or insomnia since before having this baby, no mental disorders whatsoever, and I have never abused drugs or had dependencies, although there is alcoholism in my family (not me).   I don't know why I have such an extreme dependency now on ativan so soon.

 

So for a wean, my doctor wants to c/o my ativan to Klonopin totally because of the longer 1/2 life.   And then wean.

 

The ashton manual says switch over to valium, not klonopin to wean, and I would rather follow what is standard/proven.   But do I have a problem with that because my night dose is heavy?     In valium translation, that would put me at taking 10 valium in the morn, 15 at 5 pm and 30 at midnight, 55 total in valium.    I don't really want to even the doses out to be 15/20/20, or maybe because of the long half life, it would be OK.   Will I be too groggy taking 30 valium all at once and be non-functional the next day?   But I really need help with sleep because my post partum anxiety all started with complete insomnia (I was hospitalized for a month for it over the summer, it was serious insomnia - I slept 4 hours in an entire week).    Now with my night dose (1 mg ativan, 1 mg klonopin + 7.5mg zopiclone + 250 trazadone + antidepressant) I am sleeping great.   Even a month ago, same drugs, wasn't sleeping nearly as well.   Probably my antidepressant is kicking in to consolidate my sleep, or I'm naturally slowly getting better as it's been 7 months since I had the baby.

 

OR - I also thought of doing a daytime only valium taper - 10 valium noon + 15 supper and then at night still take an ativan and klonopin or maybe just 1.5 klonopin so I'm not so drowsy during the day.  Plus it's more what I'm used to, and I know it works for me to sleep.   And then when my daytime valium taper is done, start a nighttime valium taper - maybe either 30 valium at once or 10 valium and 1 klonopin.   I will hopefully be getting better by then too because this post partum thing is only supposed to last a year, so by then I should be more anxiety free with much less insomnia.

 

Do people do tapers like that - still hold onto their old benzo(s) and gradually transition to more valium mid-taper?  

 

My biggest problem also is that I am taking an antidepressant, that at start up, caused me extreme anxiety (like breakthrough panic at 4 ativans/day).   That has eased off, but I am still in the early stages of taking the antidepressant, and because my ativan is so high, I don't know if underneath this all, I still have continuing anxiety from the antidepressant itself, or if I still have lingering anxiety from my hormones in post partum.   I want to taper just because I want to get off all this stuff, it's scary being at such high a dose, but I feel at some point I will reach a wall because I really do have a real anxiety problem right now  - either from my antidepressant causing it or me or both.  

 

Thank you so much for answering my questions.   I'm really confused and my doc is of little help/insight.  I feel like I'm on my own here to figure out my taper.  

Hi Alliecat:

 

First, congrats on being a new mom!  I had a good friend who had a baby and had post partum depression too.  She started Lexapro 10 years ago and is stil on it.  But she said it helped her through the after math of being a new mom. 

 

I am doing a valium taper now from a crossover from ativan.  I also was taking 10 mg. Ambien nitely for two years.  I tapered off Ambien first and stabilized on .5 mg. Ativan nitely.  The short-life benzos like Ativan and Xanax build tolerance quickly which means you have to take more to prevent interdosing withdrawal symptoms. 

 

What I hope and pray for you is that if you decide on a valium crossover, you might not need to go to the valium equivalency of your current doses of ativan and klonipin.  That's what happened for me.  I stabilized from my crossover at 3.75 mg. of valium instead of Ashton's equivalence of 5 mg.  I started tapering from 3.75 mg. valium.  I've read that higher than 10 mg. of valum doses bring on a high occurrence of depression.  It hasn't been a problem for me.  I also take melatonin with the valium nitely -- I read a few studies that taking melatonin has helped patients get off benzos as it has anti-anxiety properties.  I take Taurine twice a day (in between meals) and mag citrate at nite.  Also, some GABA at bedtime.  I'm not promoting supplements, but these have helped me. 

 

There are some very wise benzo mods at this site who can help you with a taper plan.  You are very wise in wanting to get off some of the stuff you are on.  Ashton recommends getting off the anti-depressant the very last as it might help you get off Ativan and the zopiclone. 

 

Welcome to you and know that you will be supported every step of the way!

 

Rocko

Hi Alliecat,

 

I'm sorry your post went so long without a response, I didn't see it until today, thanks Rocko.  We have other members who have been affected by post par-tum and ended up on benzo's, I'm so sorry.  I've seen many members crossover to Klonopin from Ativan, Dr's in the US are more likely to precribe that than Valium, so if you do decide to crossover, try not to worry about not following Ashton completely, the protocol is pretty much the same, just using another drug.  I think it would make things easier too, to just have to taper from one drug, either leaving the Zopiclone for last or dumping it first.

 

You mention anxiety, and I'm not really sure you can say it's "real", since the drugs you're on will promote it once you reach tolerance.  Hopefully if you can stabilize on the Lexepro you can begin to taper the other drugs, I feel the longer you stay on it, the more chance for long term withdrawal symptoms. 

 

I know I haven't answered many of your questions, but keep talking to us, I'm sure we can work things out.

 

Pam

 

Hi Alliecat,

 

Like Pam, I only saw yor post today.  Sorry you had to wait so long

 

As Pam said, most docs here in the US will switch someone to Klonopin rather than Valium.  I'm not sure why that is, but it seems to be the case for many people.  Having said that, we have lots of members who have successfully tapered off of Klonopin, so it's definitely doable.

 

Btw, I had severe post partum depression as well.  It went away after about 6 weeks.

 

Please let us know how you are doing.

Hi Alliecat,

 

Just saw your post today. Sorry to hear you are having a hard time. I weaned/tapered directly off of Ativan, so that is another option you could consider if you do not want to switch to K or V. I used dry cutting at first then switched to titration when I got to the lower doses. I am not saying it was easy, but it was doable. Many others on this site have successfully tapered from K and V as well. Let us know which one you decide to do and let us know how we can continue to help.

Hi Alliecat, I am a fairly new member to BB and wanted to welcome you and say that everyone here on the site has been so helpful to me. I did a lot of reading and asking questions and weighing what may be the best option for me to move forward. I am so thankful for everyone's help and advice.

 

In just a short time, I've made a lot of progress and I was pretty much at a loss as far as what to do about reducing the current dose of Ativan that I was taking (.75mg). I was stuck at this dose after being advised to reduce too much, too fast over the past few years.

 

I feel it may be too soon for me to give any advice to you, but I can tell you my recent experience. I did decide to cross-over from Ativan to Valium two weeks ago and am already seeing improvements after doing this in phases after reviewing the Ashton manual and figuring out a plan. I already feel better throughout the day and my sleep is more sound.

 

I was experiencing terrible interdose withdrawal symptoms from Ativan and always felt like I had drank a pot of coffee. I could never relax and my sleep was light with constant waking during the night and not waking up rested. I feel like I'm moving away from this drug now and will soon look into how to make a tapering plan for Valium.

 

I also currently take 30 mg of Pamelor at night for mild depression symptoms. It should help with sleep because it does cause some drowsiness. I was told by my Dr. it takes a good six weeks to build up into your system before it can help with depression symptoms. I've tried many anti-depressants - the side effects vary for each person. There are few side-effects for me from Pamelor and it's the only one that I seem to be able to tolerate. But again, it's individual for each person.

 

Please let me know if I can be of help, but wanted to share a few thoughts with you from my experience. Sending you my best-

- Jan

Allie I crossed from Ativan to Klonopin and I doubt I could have tapered with Ativan.  The inter-dose wd's were outrageous when I was on ativan, and I'm not experiencing that on K.  While valium might be 'better', klonopin is a decent option in my opinion. 

Hi Alliecat,

 

Welcome! 

 

I'm new to this site as well and the people on here are really helpful.  I just crossed over to valium from ativan...2 days ago actually, it took me about 3 weeks and I can echo what JanBG posted.  I feel so much more "even" on the Valium.  No between dose  symptoms. Personally, I wrote up a taper on paper using Ashton's taper as a guide.  I found as I crossed over, I just listened to my body.  I was originally taking 1mg of Ativan in the morning and I was worried about being too "loopy" at work on 10mg of Valium so I tried 7.5mg instead and it worked out fine. 

 

For me it really helped to know that some (if not all) of that "underlying anxiety" you might be talking about could be between dose WITHDRAWAL which Ativan is really well known to cause.  I'm NOT feeling that on the Valium.  I imagine it might be similar with Klonopin since at also lasts longer in your body.

 

Good luck...everyone here is here for you!

Hi Alliecat,

 

Just saw your post today. Sorry to hear you are having a hard time. I weaned/tapered directly off of Ativan, so that is another option you could consider if you do not want to switch to K or V. I used dry cutting at first then switched to titration when I got to the lower doses. I am not saying it was easy, but it was doable. Many others on this site have successfully tapered from K and V as well. Let us know which one you decide to do and let us know how we can continue to help.

 

May I ask....how many times a day did you dose while tapering please?

Lee