Looking for help with a cross-over schedule from Ativan to Valium...

Hi, I joined the forum not too long ago and it has been so helpful for me in just a short time. About a month ago, I wasn't sure where else to go or how to get help for reducing the dose of Ativan I take daily. After having not been very successful with recent attempts this summer and over the past two years, I felt pretty hopeless and stuck with where I am at today.

 

I have been reading a lot now and weighing the straight taper option vs. cross-over and think I'm feeling like I will try the cross-over in the next few weeks and do have the script from my Dr. And, hopefully tolerate Valium and any sedating effects as I have to continue working throughout the cross-over. I am suffering from severe interdose withdrawal on a daily basis and the symptoms are really very unpleasant as I know many have posted who are going through the same. This is why the straight reduction from Ativan may not work for me because going through the interdose plus additional withdrawal is extremely difficult.

 

I've had some great help from another member who encouraged me to check out the Ashton schedule for a cross-over plan. I have done this as my doctor's recommended plan seemed a bit aggressive. The Ashton manual only shows a 3mg dose as the lowest example plan. I am at .75mg total daily so I've just followed the basic premise below.

 

Here is what I was thinking and I would greatly appreciate anyone's advice on whether this looks like a good plan or if this seems aggressive for someone who needs to go slow and has had a really rough time reducing ativan.

 

my starting/current dose is: .25mg Ativan am and .5mg Ativan pm

 

Stage 1/Wk 1: .25 Ativan AM ...............................  .25 Ativan + 2.5 Valium PM

Stage 2/Wk 2:  .125 Ativan + 1.25 Valium AM.........  .25 Ativan + 2.5 Valium PM

Stage 3/Wk 3:  .125 Ativan + 1.25 Valium AM.........  5.0 Valium PM

Stage 4/Wk 4:  2.5 Valium AM ...............................  5.0 Valium PM

 

Total 7.5mg valium and continue to stay for maybe a month before making new reductions.

 

The 1 week intervals may be aggressive for me. I'm not sure and won't know until I try. I could try 10 days although my doctor suggested to try to transition quicker vs. taking too long.

 

thank you for your help and support.

-jan

that looks like a great schedule to me.. i too had an aggressive doctor at first and did a fairly quick crossover i think it was like 9-11 days total.. it was very hard for me.. about i month after starting the v everything totally changed and things really smoothed out.. i have seen other members to quick crossovers with no problem.. we are all different.. if you want to do a slower crossover just try to be really stern with him/her it would prob be in your best interest as that is what Ashton recommended as well.. if you are forced to go quicker it may just take a little while to stabilize and get comfortable like it did for me.. best of luck!

 

Ashley

Looks like a pretty good plan, jan.  I do think you may do better waiting longer between substitutions but as you said, you won't really know until you try.  I did have a suggestion for a slightly different plan where you substitute 2.5mg valium for the .25mg ativan morning dose as well.  I don't know of any reason you would need to break up the .25mg morning dose into two .125mg and make substitutions that way rather than just a straight substitution of 2.5mg V for .25mg A.  You might still want to take 4 weeks or more to complete the crossover but you won't need that extra step.  Hope this makes sense.

 

 

Stage 1/Wk 1: .25 Ativan AM ..........  .25 Ativan + 2.5 Valium PM

Stage 2/Wk 2:  2.5 Valium AM.........  .25 Ativan + 2.5 Valium PM

Stage 3/Wk 3:  2.5 Valium AM .........  5.0 Valium PM

 

Thank you Beeper and Ashley, your advice is very helpful. I think the slower option is  more the way that I will go due to my previous experiences with making any changes. I would like to start now but may have to wait until December (a month from now when I have time off for the holidays)

 

Beeper - The schedule you posted makes sense, thank you! I'm not sure that dividing that AM dosage would really make a difference as you said, so I may go with what you posted!

 

It's interesting how just a few weeks ago I was very uncertain about trying this and now I am feeling more confident and less fearful. A post I read last night said you have to believe you will heal and improve. I need to be on this path and create this mindset as I'm just getting by with each day right now due to the effects from Ativan.

 

-jan

 

 

Hello, I haven't posted in awhile as I've been trying to keep very busy which helps me to worry less! I have opted to try the Ativan to Valium cross-over and will start later this week with the first phase - Thursday evening.

 

I tend to shift between feeling positive about making this change, to feeling incredibly anxious and scared about it (particularly around the 'what ifs', i.e. adverse side effects as I've had a terrible time making previous reductions and having severe withdrawal.)

 

Any positive words of encouragement, success stories, prayers, etc. would be much appreciated. I have to think positive about this and take this first step. Thank you in advance as without the support and knowledge from you and BenzoBuddies so far, I wouldn't be at this stage today!

 

-Jan

Hello, I haven't posted in awhile as I've been trying to keep very busy which helps me to worry less! I have opted to try the Ativan to Valium cross-over and will start later this week with the first phase - Thursday evening.

 

I tend to shift between feeling positive about making this change, to feeling incredibly anxious and scared about it (particularly around the 'what ifs', i.e. adverse side effects as I've had a terrible time making previous reductions and having severe withdrawal.)

 

Any positive words of encouragement, success stories, prayers, etc. would be much appreciated. I have to think positive about this and take this first step. Thank you in advance as without the support and knowledge from you and BenzoBuddies so far, I wouldn't be at this stage today!

 

-Jan

 

Hey Jan! just wanted to pop in and tell you I went through the EXACT things as far as being anxious and scared about the decisions!! so you are not alone!! Once i just told myself to stop and just went with the flow things got so much better as all the what if's were just making me worse and there was really no answers to all my questions and fears in my mind anyways i found out i just had to try to find out!

 

My personal experience i switched from adivan to Valium.. and I'll  tell you it is the best desicion i have ever made.. it has alloud me to come out of the nervous wreck/mess i was on the adivan and tranform it all to a pretty darn smooth taper with V. I'm not gonna lie at first it was still a little hard when i did the crossover(I believe this was due to me crossing over too quick) so i had my doubts at first.. but then things really smoothed out! The long half life has been so helpful as i only need to take one dose a day at night.. and it has made it so so much easier to cut and make small cuts..

 

still bumps in the road but nothing like what i was suffering on adivan.. My dose is less then half then what i was on at first on adivan and I feel better now then i did at my full dose of adivan!!

 

hope this helps and good luck!!

 

Remember try not to question things to much.. go with your gut.. and it seems to me since you started this thread going the V route is what your first instinct was..

Ashley

 

Hello, I haven't posted in awhile as I've been trying to keep very busy which helps me to worry less! I have opted to try the Ativan to Valium cross-over and will start later this week with the first phase - Thursday evening.

 

I tend to shift between feeling positive about making this change, to feeling incredibly anxious and scared about it (particularly around the 'what ifs', i.e. adverse side effects as I've had a terrible time making previous reductions and having severe withdrawal.)

 

Any positive words of encouragement, success stories, prayers, etc. would be much appreciated. I have to think positive about this and take this first step. Thank you in advance as without the support and knowledge from you and BenzoBuddies so far, I wouldn't be at this stage today!

 

-Jan

 

Jan -  I think Ashley has given some great information and encouragement but I wanted to add that I felt much the same tapering directly off ativan: scared to start and scared not to.  Once I did get going and I could see that I was going to be able to handle it, I just got excited to keep going. I predict it will be much the same with you.  Good luck on Thursday. 

Hey I agree with beeps too! whichever route you do choose.. once i started tapering i noticed it was not as scary as i thought and got that excited feeling moving forward as well!!

Thank you Ashley and Beeper! This is so helpful and the encouragement is greatly appreciated. The best thing to do, is as Ashley said, to follow my gut and give it a try.

 

It's helpful to know that you both felt happier once you knew you were moving forward. That is what I need, and really praying that if I take this slow, that it will be okay.

 

I have almost three weeks off of work soon, thank goodness. While this transition is over the holidays, it's the only window I have to give it a try.

 

Thank you again and I'll keep you posted on how it goes.

best,

 

-Jan

Jan,

 

I couldn't agree more with everyone here.  You will start to feel like yourself again.  I did the c/o from Klonapin to valium and it was so much better for me.  I had the interdose withdrawals when I cut the Klonapin so I went completely on the valium.  I will say I was on a lot more than you but a different drug.  I think Ativan has the similar half life as Xanax, which I was on in the beginning.  I was on 60mg of valium in June and on 4 mg today.  I feel like I am getting ME back.  It had been awhile since I felt like me.  I will say it was sedating at first but it was kind of nice to feel that way after not being able to sleep.  Then I worked with a Cognitive Behavioral Specialist to learn how to sleep.  I would just stay awake worrying about everything before I went to him.  I just got some tools that helped me transition from being on a lot of benzos to hardly any at all. 

 

I think doing this when you have a little time off is a great thing.  I was lucky to have that in the summer and it helped tremendously.  It is a good thing you have a doctor who is willing to work with you.  I am sure you want off of these and I did some pretty quick cuts of the valium at times but sometimes I needed a little extra time.  I am sure your doctor would understand if you need to make the cuts a little more spaced out.  I didn't give myself any real time line so it made it a little less scary. 

 

Good luck to you!!

 

Oleander

hi Oleander, thank you for your note, this helps me a great deal to hear how much better things got for you after you transitioned to valium and that you've come so far! Also, it helps me to know that you are feeling like yourself in a fairly short amount of time. Thank you for sharing your experience and these encouraging words.

 

I just started the carry-over today and had the apprehensive of not going forward. But, I feel that if I finally found a doctor who was willing to work with me on this vs. others who have only wanted me to increase my dose of ativan, than I needed to take this chance and not be afraid!

 

I hope to post a positive outcome in the next few days about this first phase of my carryover. I have 2 1/2 weeks off of work now and that is such a relief. I want to limit my stress level during this time and really take it easy.

 

Thank you again for your support and kind words! Good luck to you too as you carry out your final reductions. It must feel wonderful to be this close to the end.

-Jan

 

 

Jan,

 

So glad you have that time off.  I really started to feel better on the longer half life valium.  I had those docs that just wanted to give me more and more and finally I started really looking into what the heck I was taking.  I had to call a halt to it.  I have come a long way and everyone has different experiences but I couldn't stand the interdose withdrawals so c/o to Valium took care of that for me.  I really try not to stay on an exact schedule.  I might go a bit faster if I have less stress going on and slower if I have a bunch going on.  Hope to hear your holidays turn out well.  I really believe you are going to like the longer half life.  I couldn't believe how much better I felt.  I think it should turn out well for you and can't wait to hear it.

 

Oleander

Hi Jan:

 

I was very scared about my crossover from .5 mg. nightly of Ativan to valium too.  I took it in three stages - 2 weeks, .25 mg. ativan and 2.5 mg. valium at nite; next 2 weeks .125 mg. ativan and 3.75 mg. valium.  Then was stable on 3.75 mg. valium for a month, and did not need to increase to 5 mg. valium equivalency.  I have started tapering .5 mg. every two weeks and will go from 3 mg. to 2.5 mg. next week.  I had a few nights with some insominia, but all manageable.  I also take 3 mg. melatonin and magnesium right before bed. 

 

I think you are going to do great!  And like Ashley and Oleander, I feel better than I did on Ativan too.  I also tapered from 10 mg. ambien this summer while taking .5 mg ativan nitely.  I hope you will be glad you did the crossover -- I am.  My taper is going well for me so far and I feel much better.

 

Keep us posted! 

 

Rocko

 

 

Hi Rocko,

I was ready you story and you seem to be handling things well. I wish you all the best.

Hi Rocko, Oleander (and all!) - thank you for your notes! This is very helpful and I wanted to check-in as I am on day four of the first phase of the cross-over and wanted to tell everyone the good results I am having.

 

The cross-over symptoms have been mild which is what I was most worried about. Some insomnia last night, but not as I've had in the past. As well, I'm finally sleeping better which as Oleander said, this was a relief for her as well. I don't feel as if I've slept well in the past year, always waking and never feeling rested or even if I slept at all. But, I've been waking up and feeling rested and this is such a relief.

 

Rocko - I've read some of your earlier posts when you were first trying to cross-over and your posts helped me to consider this change. (so thank you!) I was VERY afraid to make this transition. (Ashley - similar to what you said too) - Once I started and noticed that nothing terrible had happened, I felt a great sense of relief. For weeks, I've been contemplating this change and fearing the worst of symptoms based on my past experiences of making reductions to the Ativan dosage. I know it is still early, but I feel as if a great weight has been lifted for me. Because I've gotten through these first few days, I feel as if I have made the right decision and this truly may be my opportunity to get out of this benzo mess! I will post more as I go along as it's not even been a week yet, and hope to share more positive results with you.

 

Thank you all for your support and sharing insight into your experiences. I believe we can help each other through this and am so grateful for everyone's help & encouragement.

 

All my best,

- Jan

Jan,

 

I am so happy you took the plunge.  It is BETTER.  I knew it would be.  Hey, you might have the occasional bad day but you probably had those before too.  I am glad you started the cross over because diazepam's longer half life is just so much better, smoother.  It is nice to get some much needed sleep, isn't it.  I hope you have a great holiday and c/o and tapering when you feel up to it.  I have found that it is not a sprint, but a marathon but one I can do.  I have no doubt and I bet you love the sense of relief you feel.  Congrats!!!!  I hope a smooth taper for you.  Have a fantastic holiday.

 

Oleander

Jan,

 

Really happy you are trying the switch to valium as it worked so well for me and felt it was much better than trying to taper from nasty Ativan.  I'm going slow with my taper but have been doing well and will stick to my plan of going slow......happy to be off ambien and ativan and down to 6 mg of valium.

 

You have a wonderful and positive attitude and think you should do well!

 

Sending you hugs from Southern Cal!

 

Cheryl

Hi Jan:

 

Glad you are getting some fellow benzo ativan "switchers" to post their experience.  I think it has been taking the "hurdles" one at a time and then realizing you are going to be ok, and continue on to the next one.  For me, getting off Ambien was hurdle no. 1, then stabilize on .5 mg. Ativan, and then hurdle no. 2, crossing over to valium, and the last hurdle is still in progress (the taper). 

 

I had more frequent nites of insominia, no appetite, and fatique while on the ativan.  These areas have improved -- I have gained 7 lbs. and it was much needed. 

 

I am taking magnesium citrate and melatonin at bedtime also.  But will be taking my next cut on Christmas Day evening to 2.5 mg.  I want to try and stay with the .5 mg. cuts until off.  You might not need to crossover to the full equivalency of 7.5 mg of valium.  See how you do with maybe 5 mg. for a month or so.  I did that with 3.75 mg. valium and did not need to go up to 5 mg. equivalency. 

 

You have come to the right place for super support and friendly benzo-wise peeps!  We'll cheer each other on to the finish line!

 

God bless,

Rocko

Hi Cheryl, Oleander and Rocko - thank you for your support and positive wishes of encouragement! I have had a few bumps in the road on day six of the carry-over, a bit more insomnia last night and a few moments of feeling overwhelmed today, but am trying to look at it that nothing about this can be expected and to just let it go.

 

Oleander - as you said, there are good days and some not so good. I've had this for years and lately have really taken note of when I was having a good day. These are minor symptoms in the grand scheme of what I've gone through before (I've made pretty dramatic reductions with ativan previously due to medical advice and suffered quite heavily.) This has truly been much easier than I expected and I'll continue as I am already feeling much better even with this small change about a week ago.

 

I am also feeling what you explain as a smoother transition throughout the day whereas prior to a week ago, I was very much on a roller-coaster each day due to the interdose withdrawal. I don't know that this is entirely gone, it's still early, but something is different and it seems to have decreased. For this, I am very grateful as it was a difficult state to be in.

 

Rocko - I may consider your advice and not go to the full 7.5mg as you said, but see how it goes after awhile after the second phase (switching the night-time dose fully to Valium.) It's definitely something to think about as I don't want to go higher if not necessary. Thank you for this advice, I may come back to you again on this!

 

Cheryl-thank you for your continued support. You've been wonderful! Sending you a hug as well, from chilly MI!

 

Really appreciate your kind notes and hope you all had a really good day today.

all my best,

-jan

 

 

 

 

Jan,

 

So glad the c/o is working out for you.  I found it to be the only way I could do it.  BTW, hi to MI from the icy streets of Chicago!!!!  Have a warm holiday!!!  This will be behind you in no time at all and you will look back at what you felt like in the beginning and it will be a faint memory.  I remember going c/t 6 months ago and thought I would die but reading the Ashton Method really helped me do this a smoother way.  I can hardly remember the feeling I had back then but know it wasn't a good way for me to do this.  There are a ton of different ways and a ton of support here.  Glad you found Benzo Buddies.

 

Oleander

hi Oleander, thank you and happy holidays! I hope you have a Merry Christmas and stay warm too - you are not too far away (I'm originally from IL, and still have family there.) Thank you for this - about looking back and having this be a memory..I look forward to sometime next year to potentially be free of this medication, although I know that I will have some time to fully heal even after that.

 

I am so thankful for finding Benzo Buddies. I truly would not be in this first phase of making this change without the support from this forum and also for finding one doctor who was willing to listen and support me with this (she wasn't familiar with the Ashton manual - but after my last visit she said how much it makes sense to switch off of a short-acting benzo like Ativan.) This has really given me hope when just a few months ago, I didn't know where to turn or if there was any path to help me feel like I can move forward. By far, this is the greatest thing I am thankful for. I do have hope now.

 

Thank you to everyone again. I send you my best and wish you all a wonderful holiday. My prayers are with you and hopes for a healthy new year ahead.

 

my best,

-jan

Just checking in since my last post. I am on day 3 of the 2nd phase of crossing over from Ativan to Valium. (I have switched the PM does entirely over to Valium so currently at .25mg Ativan AM and 5mg Valium PM.)

 

It seems to be going okay and today has really been the first day where I've felt a bit sedated during the day. I took two naps which is highly unusual for me...I haven't been able to fall asleep during the day for well over a year.

 

Have been reading a lot...one book that I got for Christmas is short stories (faith-based) which are very positive. The other is a book on healing from long-term illnesses or injury. It is very interesting and talks about how to keep a positive attitude and gaining acceptance of what's happened in order to help your healing process. So, have been thinking about this a lot as I have some concern over the long-term effect from Ativan and what it has done to my mind (if I don't stay very focused on something, I have a lot of racing thoughts, worry/anxiety, thinking that this will never improve, etc.) However, if I keep very focused and busy it is much less. Hoping that in time, and once I am off of these medications, that this may heal as I was never like this before.

 

Well, just wanted to give an update. Feeling a bit tired today, hope tomorrow is better.

 

Wow, two naps, I hope you can sleep tonight!  The book you're reading about a positive attitude and acceptance is exactly what we preach here, I'm glad you're reading it, I hope it helps you.  Please don't worry about long term effects of these drugs, all of this magically goes away and life resumes better than ever. 

 

I'm glad the crossover is going well for you. 

Thank you Pamster, me too ; )  Hoping I won't be up too late. And thank you for your encouragement that these symptoms are not life-long. At the moment, I think that is my biggest worry.

 

I may post a few lines from this one book shortly which really sunk in with me. I do believe now that the way you choose to approach your healing will have an effect (I did not know or believe this years ago due to being uninformed about these medications and simply not understanding what was happening during stages of reductions/withdrawals, etc.)

It difficult to believe that something which impacts our life to this extent doesn't leave a scar, but it doesn't.  I look forward to the passages you're going to provide.