adivan to diazapam crossover help.

Os I went to the doctors today and after fighting and fighting I was able to get him to prescribe me the diazapam for crossover. However when I presented him my schedule he really insisted on me doing it faster. I am currently taking 1mg of adivan 2X and he wants me to do my nightly dose of 10mg diazapam tonight and 1mg of adivan in the morning for 3 days then completely switch my morning dose to diazapam in 3 days.. seemsalittle fast for me.. any advice? then once I am at 10mg in morning and 10at night he wants me to start cutting 2mg off the morning doese each week when that is out he wants me to cut 2mg a week out of the nightly dose til done.. this all seems very fast and do not know if I feel comfortable with it. but any advise would help. he says that since i have only been on benzos for 4-5 months that he does not wantto draw it out longer so i get more addicted.. feedback on this plan would be appritiated. If anyone has the time to maybe help  me awrite out a better plan I would be sooo greatful! thanks!

Since you had to fight with your doctor to get his support for a diazepam crossover, I doubt you will be able to convince him of the need to take longer both to crossover and to taper.  That's one of the reasons I decided to taper directly or titrate lorazepam/ativan: I didn't want the hassle of trying to educate my doctor.  Good luck with your crossover. 

ya i know I was just thinking about doing it with out him knowing.. maybe just drag it out a little longer!

Listen to your doctor and keep him/her updated how you feel. You might like the valium better since it lasts longer then Ativan.

To be quite honest I would try the doctors prescribed taper ( with 4- 5 months use ) before I compared the tapers I read about in the manual, because the manual has decade + long users following it. This is just my opinion because I cannot quite grasp the concept of a taper longer then prescribed use, if your using ashton tapers to compare to your doctors.

 

ALSO,

Sometimes, there is a slight chance that a doctor turns on you and stops prescribing because you didn't follow the taper plan...... You know the saying about up a creek without a paddle? and your running around looking for a doctor to prescribe pills makes things worse. Keep this in mind before you second guess your doctor.

 

Option

Find another doctor to taper you at your own rate.

 

 

ashros,

 

It is fast.. 10% cuts are suppose to be made every 7-14 days..

 

A Schedule I would recommend for cross-over-

 

Ativan 1mg (Morning) 5mg Valium+0.5mg Ativan (Night)

1-2 weeks

Ativan 1mg (Morning) 10mg Valium (Night)

1-2 weeks

Ativan 5mg Valium+0.5mg Ativan (morning) 10mg Valium (Night)

1-2 weeks

Valium 10mg (Morning) Valium 10mg (Night)

Hold 1-2 weeks and cut 10% or @ your own pace.

...

That's just a guideline, if you decide to c/o.

 

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm

The Ashton Manual if you want to see the c/o scheds.

 

I c/o from 2.25mg of Klonopin to 45mg of Valium..

I did it quick, had too because of my doctor..

 

Any which way you go, we are here for you. Ativan has a short half-life, Valium would be an option.

Inter-dose w/d scenario with Ativan.. if you taper directly off it.

There is always water titration too.

Good luck.

 

Keryn.

 

Even if one accepts that Dr. Ashton's plans for crossover and for tapering are conservative, and it only has been 4 months, the Dr.'s plan is really quick.  It would seem options hinge somewhat on how much Valium there is to work with for starters.

The problem with what the doctors are taught/read and what real life are different things. For instance, This link to the drug encyclopedia klonopin page:

 

http://www.theodora.com/drugs/klonopin_tablets_klonopin_wafers_roche_laboratories.html

 

The taper calls for a .125 cut every three days. This is most likely Roche material, the same documents our doctors read from.

 

"Treatment should be discontinued gradually, with a decrease of 0.125 mg bid every 3 days, until the drug is completely withdrawn."

 

I assume this is the same literature our detox centers use. 

 

Anyway, for a doctor to give you this taper, he probably thinks he is extending it too long and is being generous.

 

 

This is Xanax XR page with even bigger cuts:

 

http://www.theodora.com/drugs/xanax_xr_tablets_pharmacia_upjohn.html

 

"In all patients, dosage should be reduced gradually when discontinuing therapy or when decreasing the daily dosage. Although there are no systematically collected data to support a specific discontinuation schedule, it is suggested that the daily dosage be decreased by no more than 0.5 mg every three days. Some patients may require an even slower dosage reduction. "

 

To make a long story short, to see what doctors read gives you a better idea of how they think.

 

gman

The problem with what the doctors are taught/read and what real life are different things. For instance, This link to the drug encyclopedia klonopin page:

 

http://www.theodora.com/drugs/klonopin_tablets_klonopin_wafers_roche_laboratories.html

 

The taper calls for a .125 cut every three days. This is most likely Roche material, the same documents our doctors read from.

 

"Treatment should be discontinued gradually, with a decrease of 0.125 mg bid every 3 days, until the drug is completely withdrawn."

 

I assume this is the same literature our detox centers use. 

 

Anyway, for a doctor to give you this taper, he probably thinks he is extending it too long and is being generous.

 

 

This is Xanax XR page with even bigger cuts:

 

http://www.theodora.com/drugs/xanax_xr_tablets_pharmacia_upjohn.html

 

"In all patients, dosage should be reduced gradually when discontinuing therapy or when decreasing the daily dosage. Although there are no systematically collected data to support a specific discontinuation schedule, it is suggested that the daily dosage be decreased by no more than 0.5 mg every three days. Some patients may require an even slower dosage reduction. "

 

To make a long story short, to see what doctors read gives you a better idea of how they think.

 

gman

 

This is good information, and a informative peak into the minds of our prescribers, thanks Gman!

The taper calls for a .125 cut every three days. This is most likely Roche material, the same documents our doctors read from.

 

True, I think many Doctor's have their own system..which they pull people off way too fast, leaving one in shock; and then wants to put the patient on more medication to cover the withdrawal. The person who is left in withdrawal after they are jerked off the drug after a sprint taper..they hope the patient doesn't know it's w/d. I wonder sometimes if some doc's know more than they let on, but then again..I doubt it.

 

Keryn.

The taper calls for a .125 cut every three days. This is most likely Roche material, the same documents our doctors read from.

 

True, I think many Doctor's have their own system..which they pull people off way too fast, leaving one in shock; and then wants to put the patient on more medication to cover the withdrawal. The person who is left in withdrawal after they are jerked off the drug after a sprint taper..they hope the patient doesn't know it's w/d. I wonder sometimes if some doc's know more than they let on, but then again..I doubt it.

 

Keryn.

 

I think your giving doctors too much credit. I don't think they have a clue.

The taper calls for a .125 cut every three days. This is most likely Roche material, the same documents our doctors read from.

 

True, I think many Doctor's have their own system..which they pull people off way too fast, leaving one in shock; and then wants to put the patient on more medication to cover the withdrawal. The person who is left in withdrawal after they are jerked off the drug after a sprint taper..they hope the patient doesn't know it's w/d.

I wonder sometimes if some doc's know more than they let on, but then again..I doubt it.

 

Keryn.

 

I think your giving doctors too much credit. I don't think they have a clue.

 

Probably, I doubt they do know, but I think very very few know a little more than they say.

I wonder sometimes if some doc's know more than they let on, but then again..I doubt it.

Keryn,

 

You could be right.  When my doc wanted me to just taper from the Xanax and Klonopin and it was making me worse, he would want to just add more or different drugs in.  A medicating prescribing doctor doesn't make any money if he isn't prescribing.  'what else is he going to do??  I can't believe that every doctor is that clueless.  My doc acted like he didn't know what I was talking about with c/o but my guess is he did and wasn't that interested in it.  I don't really need him anymore.  That probably wasn't his plan.  Certainly if all patients on benzos get off of them.  Just my guess.

 

 

Oleander

Keryn,

 

You could be right.  When my doc wanted me to just taper from the Xanax and Klonopin and it was making me worse, he would want to just add more or different drugs in.  A medicating prescribing doctor doesn't make any money if he isn't prescribing.  'what else is he going to do??  I can't believe that every doctor is that clueless.  My doc acted like he didn't know what I was talking about with c/o but my guess is he did and wasn't that interested in it.  I don't really need him anymore.  That probably wasn't his plan.  Certainly if all patients on benzos get off of them.  Just my guess.

 

 

Oleander

 

Oh, I have no doubt some Doctor's know.. because there was this one Doctor I seen in Massachusetts, and before I told him the Equiv. of Klonopin to Valium, he already knew it was 1:20 ratio..

But at that time, I was not willing to c/o, I was doing ok on the Klonopin..

I think some Doctor's know.

Apples for Oranges, Oranges for Apples, give or take..

P-doc's, all of these new medications coming out.. they make money off them, so when they want you to think.. it's not withdrawal after so long, (the less informed).. they can label you, give you that "New Med" and send you on down the line..

I find it to be true. It's good that we ARE informed!

 

Keryn.

 

 

 

Keryn,

 

You could be right.  When my doc wanted me to just taper from the Xanax and Klonopin and it was making me worse, he would want to just add more or different drugs in.  A medicating prescribing doctor doesn't make any money if he isn't prescribing.  'what else is he going to do??  I can't believe that every doctor is that clueless.  My doc acted like he didn't know what I was talking about with c/o but my guess is he did and wasn't that interested in it.  I don't really need him anymore.  That probably wasn't his plan.  Certainly if all patients on benzos get off of them.  Just my guess.

 

 

Oleander

 

Oh, I have no doubt some Doctor's know.. because there was this one Doctor I seen in Massachusetts, and before I told him the Equiv. of Klonopin to Valium, he already knew it was 1:20 ratio..

But at that time, I was not willing to c/o, I was doing ok on the Klonopin..

I think some Doctor's know.

Apples for Oranges, Oranges for Apples, give or take..

P-doc's, all of these new medications coming out.. they make money off them, so when they want you to think.. it's not withdrawal after so long, (the less informed).. they can label you, give you that "New Med" and send you on down the line..

I find it to be true. It's good that we ARE informed!

 

Keryn.

 

 

 

 

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