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LORAZEPAM TO VALIUM


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Re: HELP!!  Lorazepam  5mg  c/o  to  Valium

 

Hi everyone,

I sure could use any help or suggestions on this crossover.  I thought I was following Ashton schedule (proven success) but have not really.  What is confusing is that the Ashton schedule c/o & taper from 6mg & 3mg are totally different.  With the 3mg your completely off lorazepam before you taper.  6mg you start tapering before the c/o???

So here I  now..2 ½ mg of lorazepam=25mg plus 15 mg of Valium for a total of 40 mg.

 

I am doing OK with current schedule but know I need to c/o to more Valium soon.

Schedule that was working till I tried dropping .5 of lorazepam in AM  w/o adding V.

7:00AM --.5 mg of lorazepam  go to YWCA water walk

9:30AM--  .5 mg of lorazepam + 5 mg of Valium

3:00PM--  1 mg of lorazeapam

10:00PM--.5 mg of lorazepam + 10 mg Valium

Total Benzo 40 mg’s.

Concerned with adding more Valium in AM  as I work full time & do accounting but am willing to try anything. 

 

Would like to get over to Ashton schedule as it is so easy to follow & it’s so reassuring but what week should I be looking at?

 

Any help or enlightenment would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

JAYNE

 

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Hi Jayne,

 

I'm glad you started this thread, I was going to suggest it but didn't want to overwhelm you anymore than you already are.  Here's my concern, on Sept 2, you let us know you were taking 5 mgs of Ativan a day, now you're taking 2.5 mg of Ativan and 15 mg of Valium.  This means you've dropped 2.5 mgs of Ativan since you started your taper and have only added 15 mgs of Valium, right?  Is this the way you see this? 

 

If this is the case, then instead of just crossing over, you've tapered the Valium equivalent of 10 mgs.  Do you agree?

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Pam,

Yes, that is correct... but I seem to be OK with current dosage except for yesterday & a week ago when I was home, felt OK &

missed taking early AM lorazepam dosages.  Real bad time even though I took late AM dosage  on schedule.  So I am just hoping to find where I could be in the Ashton schedule if at all?  Jayne

PS  I am soo slow on this computer stuff you all would have a good laugh!! Positive thing though is I am going to sign up for a class!

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Tell you what, I'm no good at taper stuff since I never did it, so we make a fine pair!  :pokey:

 

I've been looking at Professor Ashtons schedule, it looks like she substitutes 5 mgs of Valium every time she takes away .5 of Ativan.  How would you feel about substituting 5 mgs of Valium in place of .5 mgs of Ativan at 3:00 pm?  So at 3:00, you'd take .5 Ativan and 5 mgs of Valium for a week.  I'd like to see you get all the way crossed over before you taper anymore, what do you think?

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Pam, Thanks for taking so much time helping me.  I am on board with that, makes good sense.  What do you think about more Valium at bedtime, does it help with AM W/D?
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I've looked at the crossover schedules and she does NOT have you reduce lorazepam/ativan before crossing over when at 6mg ativan.  It's the same pattern for both 3mg and 6mg: substitute an equivalent amount of valium for every ativan reduction, dose by dose, until you are on nothing but the valium equivalent of the total ativan you started with.  If you were on 5mg ativan and wanting to crossover to an equivalent amount of valium, you'd be crossing to 50mg valium a dose at a time every week or two.
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Pam, Thanks for taking so much time helping me.  I am on board with that, makes good sense.  What do you think about more Valium at bedtime, does it help with AM W/D?

 

Hi Jayne,

 

My feeling about taper plans is they should fit your lifestyle, it should be personalized to fit your needs.  If you have sleep issues, then taking more Valium at night would be a good way to go.  I'm not sure about morning withdrawals, since Valium has such a long half life, but you could experiment if you need to.  That's the beauty of this plan, you can work it from many different angles.

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Hello Jayne- I'm not wanting to step in the way or anything of these very fine folks helping you out here but I wanted to stop in and give you a  :therethere: because I did the crossover from Ativan to Valium and I remember being as worried as you sound when I read your note here. Please know that it's gonna be OK and as confusing as things will sometimes seem they always work out and you will get there just as I did and so many others have done as well.  :thumbsup:

 

Valium in my opinion was VERY different the Ativan and though it seems scary with RE to work and all if your like me you will be OK. I'm not sure how to put it so I'll just give it my best attempt and tell you that while I felt very intoxicated on Ativan I did NOT feel that way on Valium most of the time. I'd have to have ingested a whole lot of Valium to even come close to the way in which Ativan worked on me. In fact it is my sincere Belief that crossing over to Valium is where the addiction that raged in me was broken. I was not hooked on Valium as I was on Ativan. Valium allowed me to taper off Ativan and off Benzos as smooth as possible where as for me a direct taper off Ativan I don't think would have been near as smooth. It's a much more EVEN pace, state of mind is more the words I think for it. State of being vs the rapid high and rapid low that comes with Ativan. You don't crash or at least I don't think I did on Valium as I did after each and every dose of Ativan.

 

My best to you

 

Jan THE KID

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Thank you all for the support!  I feel so much better.  Beeper, you were correct. I had it wrong & so worried on this c/o.

I'll start tommorrow with the afternoon substitution Pamster has suggested.  Jan thanks for your encouragement!

JAYNE

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Hello Jayne- I'm not wanting to step in the way or anything of these very fine folks helping you out here but I wanted to stop in and give you a  :therethere: because I did the crossover from Ativan to Valium and I remember being as worried as you sound when I read your note here. Please know that it's gonna be OK and as confusing as things will sometimes seem they always work out and you will get there just as I did and so many others have done as well.  :thumbsup:

 

Valium in my opinion was VERY different the Ativan and though it seems scary with RE to work and all if your like me you will be OK. I'm not sure how to put it so I'll just give it my best attempt and tell you that while I felt very intoxicated on Ativan I did NOT feel that way on Valium most of the time. I'd have to have ingested a whole lot of Valium to even come close to the way in which Ativan worked on me. In fact it is my sincere Belief that crossing over to Valium is where the addiction that raged in me was broken. I was not hooked on Valium as I was on Ativan. Valium allowed me to taper off Ativan and off Benzos as smooth as possible where as for me a direct taper off Ativan I don't think would have been near as smooth. It's a much more EVEN pace, state of mind is more the words I think for it. State of being vs the rapid high and rapid low that comes with Ativan. You don't crash or at least I don't think I did on Valium as I did after each and every dose of Ativan.

 

My best to you

 

Jan THE KID

 

Jan,

Nice to see you again; and thank you for putting into words the feeling you had tapering with valium verses adivan.  I feel the same with valium verses K. I couldn't function on k in w/d; valium is much easier on my body, i can function in w/d.  I'm glad i found a doc to work with and make the switch. 

You're very kind to reassure Jayne that the cross over is a good thing.

take care,

love, truck

 

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Hi Jayne

 

I'm in the midst of crossing over from ativan to valium. I have one more stage to go and then I will be off the ativan. I followed the Ashton schedule to the letter. I'm with Truck and Jan, the valium has been much smoother. I don't miss the interdose withdrawals.

 

Leslie

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Hi everone,

I know you probably hear this a lot but THANKS for all your support.  I know now without your support & help I would not be on this road getting off benzo's.  The thoughts that keep coming into my mind everyday to reassure me have been so helpful & really kept me on-board. Some thoughts...this is going to be life changing,it's not a race with this crossover & then taper,

your bound to feel some w/d but just accept it & stay the course! I realize I am not alone,reading about other peoples experiences which has been invaluable.

 

Pamster Thanks I am doing just fine with the afternoon c/o.  I know I'll have more questions later. Thanks Jayne

 

PS.. Just a closing thought that might help.  I am new to exercising & started waterwalking  most days & feel it might really be helping with w/d.

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[60...]

Jayne,

 

The c/o, it's going well for you?

I c/o from 2.25mg of Klonopin to 45mg of Valium.. I really didn't have to much of a rough time with it.

I hope the c/o is going well for you, and yes this Forum is very helpful.

Jayne, are you feeling any w/d under the Valium?

 

Keryn.

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Hi Jayne,

 

I'm glad to hear you're getting this taper business worked out, it's almost too much for our benzo brains to wrap around sometimes!  We'll be here whenever you need us, lots of good folks here, that's for sure.  I'm glad to hear you're doing some water exercises, much better on the joints and such a good aerobic workout.  :thumbsup:

 

Pam

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  Thanks for asking how I’m doing with c/o. Ok but I need to make more time to get involved with this group as it is so important.  I wanted to take a few days & really think  on your  question, on if I was feeling much w/d with Valium. Sleeping thru the night most nights, which I wasn’t doing at all when on only lorezapam.  Daytime & evening mostly ok. With as much lorazepam as I was on..5mg for over 5 yrs & on this benzo for over 20yrs, I know this isn’t going to be at  all easy.  I need some expertise on what was happening to me this last Saturday & Sunday.  Here is what happened.  Went to bed Fri night early, thinking I would get up early before going to work, to have some time to get on BB. I lost track of time & was 1 hr late with just the lorezapam dosage.  I also felt tired even though I had a good nights sleep.  After taking the .5 lorezapam, within a short time I felt fine.  Was this W/D??  Sunday afternoon, I was in a little w/d, about 2:15, I knew I had to wait till 3:00, so decided to see if taking a nap would help, & to my surprise fell asleep for 2 hrs.  I had the same symptoms both days, which is puzzling to me.  Does anyone have any thoughts on what maybe happening.  I’m trying to think what my next c/o dosage should be & where to cut the loreazapam.  I need to be alert for work & I’m feeling that the Valium is now kicking in but  am concerned that I may not be as alert for work as I should be if I add more Valium in the morning.  The schedule has been really helpful in  getting the benzo into my system in a more uniform way as I am now not panicking & reaching for a pill. Below is how I have tapered & c/o the afternoon dosage  for this last week’s schedule.  Does anyone have any thoughts on where I should go from here? Should I increase the dosage of Valium at night & take out the lorazepam.  Does the lorezapam have to be phased out uniformly or can the AM dosage be removed, last, with the c/o?

 

Jayne

 

Hers is my current schudle,

7:00AM --.5 mg of lorazepam  go to YWCA water walk

9:30AM--  .5 mg of lorazepam + 5 mg of Valium, go to work till 6:00

3:00PM-- .5 mg of lorazepam + 5 mg Valium

10:00PM--.5 mg of lorazepam + 10 mg Valium

Total Benzo 40 mg’s.

 

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[60...]

Jayne,

 

7:00AM --.5 mg of lorazepam

9:30AM--  .5 mg of lorazepam + 5 mg of Valium

3:00PM-- .5 mg of lorazepam + 5 mg Valium

10:00PM--.5 mg of lorazepam + 10 mg Valium

Total Benzo 40 mg’s.

 

Just a guideline-

7:00 AM- .5mg of Lorazepam

9:30 AM- .5mg of Lorazepam + 5mg of Valium

3:00 PM- .5mg of Lorazepam +5mg of Valium

10:00 PM- 15mg of Valium (x the Lorazepam) c/o complete @ night).

 

7:00 AM- .5mg of Lorazepam

9:30 AM- .5mg of Lorazepam + 5mg of Valium

3:00 PM-  10mg of V c/o complete

10:00 PM- 15mg of V c/o complete

 

7:00 AM- .5mg of Lorazepam

9:30 AM-  10mg of V c/o complete

3:00 PM-  10mg of V c/o complete

10:00 PM- 15mg of V c/o complete

 

7:00 AM-  5mg of V c/o complete

9:30 AM-  10mg of V c/o complete

3:00 PM-  10mg of V c/o complete

10:00 PM- 15mg of V c/o complete

 

40mg of Valium.

 

Jayne, I'm not trying to tell you how to dose or so so, but the doses are so close together, perhaps you could merge the doses..like this-

Just to give an idea.. guideline..

 

7:00 AM- 15mg of Valium

3:00 PM- 10mg of Valium

10:00 PM- 15mg of Valium

 

With the long half life of Valium, you shouldn't have Inter-dose w/d, so I would think 3 doses is best, or?

I'm not telling you how to do your taper, but just an Idea, you know to stabilize..then cut..or are you cutting as you c/o to Valium?

 

Keryn.

 

 

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Keryn,

 

Thanks for the quick reply.  This really helps!  Is this a 4 week schedule to completely crossover?  It really looks like a doable schedule.  Am I reading it correctly, that after I go through this schedule I'll be completely crossed over and be ready to begin a taper plan?

 

Thanks again!!

Jayne

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Keryn,

Sorry I didn't answer your last question correctly.  I am in c/o stage still,no taper yet,per recommendations.  Jayne

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[60...]

Keryn,

 

Thanks for the quick reply.  This really helps!  Is this a 4 week schedule to completely crossover?  It really looks like a doable schedule.  Am I reading it correctly, that after I go through this schedule I'll be completely crossed over and be ready to begin a taper plan?

 

Thanks again!!

Jayne

 

Is this a 4 week schedule to completely crossover? 

 

The timing of your c/o is up to you.. it can be a 4 week c/o, considering you have 4 doses.

 

It really looks like a doable schedule.  Am I reading it correctly, that after I go through this schedule I'll be completely crossed over and be ready to begin a taper plan?

 

It's doable, I'm about 98% sure out of 100.. The c/o should help with Inter-dose, coming off Ativan (Lorazepam) directly can set up a scenario of Inter-dose w/d, and by the looks of the dosing and the timing, I assume you get Inter-dose w/d.

 

After you c/o, you will need to let the Valium build up Metabolize.. so so, usually after a month, people start cutting.

 

Again, I would merge the doses into 3, then later on 2, then 1..

 

Jayne, they are only guidelines, The Inter-dose w/d will go away while on Valium, 40mg of Valium will decrease the w/d between doses; and you'll get a sedation/ and this is really a good break..

 

How you cut & so on is up to you, but we're here if you have any questions.

 

Keryn.

 

 

 

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Hi  Keryn,

I hope, I said Congratulation's  on joining the team yesterday!

 

I appreciate you taking the time from your busy schedule to work out a c/o schedule.

I'm going to try your suggestion on eliminating the lorezapam in tonight's  bedtime dosage, so that will be a complete c/o tonight off lorezapam.  Let you know how I do.

 

I just have a question for you or anyone experienced  in the c/o’s.  by leaving the morning lorazepam dosages intact, is this done to keep me more alert during the day?  I'm just starting to feel that Valium sedation during the day now,after starting on Valium 9/2/10.

 

Take your time answering , this isn't urgent.  I appreciate everyone support.  Jayne

 

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[60...]

Hi  Keryn,

I hope, I said Congratulation's  on joining the team yesterday!

 

I appreciate you taking the time from your busy schedule to work out a c/o schedule.

I'm going to try your suggestion on eliminating the lorezapam in tonight's  bedtime dosage, so that will be a complete c/o tonight off lorezapam.  Let you know how I do.

 

I just have a question for you or anyone experienced  in the c/o’s.  by leaving the morning lorazepam dosages intact, is this done to keep me more alert during the day?  I'm just starting to feel that Valium sedation during the day now,after starting on Valium 9/2/10.

 

Take your time answering , this isn't urgent.  I appreciate everyone support.  Jayne

 

 

Thanks Jayne,

 

The sedation will go away in time, it should..as your body gets adjusted to it.

It takes a little while for the Valium to build up in your system, you may feel a bit more sedated while completing the c/o.

 

Let us know how it goes..

 

Keryn.

 

 

 

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STARTED THIS C/O 9/28/10-10/05/10

7:00AM --.5 mg of lorazepam

9:30AM--  .5 mg of lorazepam + 5 mg of Valium

3:00PM-- .5 mg of lorazepam + 5 mg Valium

10:00PM--.5 mg of lorazepam + 10 mg Valium

Total Benzo 40 mg’s.

 

Just a guideline-*** STARTED THIS  NEXT C/O 10/05/10

7:00 AM- .5mg of Lorazepam

9:30 AM- .5mg of Lorazepam + 5mg of Valium

3:00 PM- .5mg of Lorazepam +5mg of Valium

10:00 PM- 15mg of Valium (x the Lorazepam) c/o complete @ night).

Total Benzo 40 mg’s

 

NEED HELP HERE WITH ANY SUGGESTIONS

SHOULD START NEXT STAGE  C/O  TOMMORROW BUT HAVING SOME W/D?  I didn’t think there would be much w/d with c/o with longer lasting benzo. Any thoughts on if dropping all the lorezapam in afternoon still best option.  I’m really tired with work ,this addition of valium & adding water walking to daily schedule for my  really bad back & w/d.  I’m  going to try to get to bed by 9:00, so is the 3:00 pm total c/o to valium to  close together.  Any suggestions I sure would appreciate.  I started on this crap way back in 1987 at .05,so don’t expect this to be an easy deal.  Thanks everyone!

 

Jayne

 

PS I started  on valium on 9/2/10

 

 

 

 

7:00 AM- .5mg of Lorazepam

9:30 AM- .5mg of Lorazepam + 5mg of Valium

3:00 PM-  10mg of V c/o complete

10:00 PM- 15mg of V c/o complete

 

7:00 AM- .5mg of Lorazepam

9:30 AM-  10mg of V c/o complete

3:00 PM-  10mg of V c/o complete

10:00 PM- 15mg of V c/o complete

 

7:00 AM-  5mg of V c/o complete

9:30 AM-  10mg of V c/o complete

3:00 PM-  10mg of V c/o complete

10:00 PM- 15mg of V c/o complete

 

40mg of Valium.

 

Jayne, I'm not trying to tell you how to dose or so so, but the doses are so close together, perhaps you could merge the doses..like this-

Just to give an idea.. guideline..

 

7:00 AM- 15mg of Valium

3:00 PM- 10mg of Valium

10:00 PM- 15mg of Valium

 

With the long half life of Valium, you shouldn't have Inter-dose w/d, so I would think 3 doses is best, or?

I'm not telling you how to do your taper, but just an Idea, you know to stabilize..then cut..or are you cutting as you c/o to Valium?

 

Keryn.

 

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Hi Jayne,

 

I'm a little confused by your post because it looks like there is something written by Keryn on it?  Were you simply writing out something Keryn and posted to you previously?

 

An easy way to quote someone is to go to the post that person made.  On the upper right side of the post, you will see some tabs and one says "quote".  Click on this and a reply box will appear with that person's quote.  You can then type a response or a question at the end of the quote, then click your preview buttom to see what it looks like, and if it's what you want, then click the post button.  Hope this helps!  If not, let me know and I'll try to explain it a little better ;)

 

 

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Just a guideline-*** STARTED THIS  NEXT C/O 10/05/10

7:00 AM- .5mg of Lorazepam

9:30 AM- .5mg of Lorazepam + 5mg of Valium

3:00 PM- .5mg of Lorazepam +5mg of Valium

10:00 PM- 15mg of Valium (x the Lorazepam) c/o complete @ night).

Total Benzo 40 mg’s

 

NEED HELP HERE WITH ANY SUGGESTIONS

SHOULD START NEXT STAGE  C/O  TOMMORROW BUT HAVING SOME W/D?  I didn’t think there would be much w/d with c/o with longer lasting benzo. Any thoughts on if dropping all the lorezapam in afternoon still best option.  I’m really tired with work ,this addition of valium & adding water walking to daily schedule for my  really bad back & w/d.  I’m  going to try to get to bed by 9:00, so is the 3:00 pm total c/o to valium to  close together.  Any suggestions I sure would appreciate.  I started on this crap way back in 1987 at .05,so don’t expect this to be an easy deal.  Thanks everyone!

 

Jayne

---------------------

 

Jayne - Since there are so many details and schedule info in your post, I wanted to be clear about what I'm referring to, which is the part I copied and pasted above.  As I understand it, you are wonder which dose to finish converting to all valium starting tomorrow.  First, if you are feeling more symptomatic than you can handle, you could wait for a while, even another week, to make the next crossover.  As you know, valium takes the longest of all the benzos to build up in your system so it could be there is some catching up to do.

 

When you are ready to take the next step, I think finishing the substitution of valium for lorazepam at your 9:30 am dose seems reasonable to me since that's about 12 hours from your evening dose which is now fully valium. However, if daytime drowsiness has become a problem, you could try the finishing the 3 pm crossover first instead.  There really isn't a "right" or "wrong" way since it all depends on how you react.  Your morning doses are pretty close together and could probably be combined into a single mid-morning dose if you want.  However, if this is working for you, there's really no reason to change now (in my opinion  ;) ).

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Missy,

Thanks for telling me about the quote button.  I was just trying to show a c/o Keryn had suggested to me & I where I  was with it.  I realize now, that I cut & pasted too much. Thanks again.  Jayne

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