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Ativan to Valium


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Hi,

Still trying to decide whether or not to do this.  Can anyone tell me what the difference is between the way the two make you feel.  My pdoc doesn't want me to do it but I have an appt. with another pdoc and she said she would help me do it if I wanted to go that route.  I think I will probably end up titrating but am still mulling the valium idea over.  If you switch to valium and hate it can you switch back?  Also heard that valium is much more beneficial for sleep and I have trouble with that. 

Thanks for your help.

 

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Melissa7

 

 

If I had a choice (which I did not) I would direct taper from the Benzo I was on.

 

1. It will take additional time to do a cross over to valium

2. Valium can cause depression, and may present other issues you do not now have.

3. You can taper as slow as you want, avoid inter dose withdrawal (multiple doses/day), and taper to a much smaller jump off point (like .01mg) using Titration.

 

Teakettle

 

 

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Thanks Teakettle,

I didn't have too hard of a time with my last cut of .25mg.  Achy and burning skin mostly so I guess I will hang in there and see if titration works for me.  It's just that I've heard valium is easier to tolerate.

:)

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I wouldn't crossover at 10mg it's too much sedation and depression, I took Valium for years at 2mg and never had a problem with it, I changed doctor when I moved and she wouldn't give me my 2mg valium she gave me 1mg ativan which is 10x stronger I am pissed off about this...I didn't know.  I would crossover at 5mg if things get too squirrely  :D and did ashton even mention water titrating ? or liquid ativan ? or even compounding your doses ? no...she did not.

 

Teakettle gave some good advice, this is my poison I know what it does to me and it's in my system so I am going to get as low as I can and then take it from there. I figured why take 1 step forward and 2 steps back crossing over to 10mg ?? too much... Valium is murky that's what I remember about it...stays in the liver longer and that's why my psych would not give it to me...I have a new psych now and she already gave me the crossover valium but I chickened out...

 

2cents

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Thanks Teakettle,

I didn't have too hard of a time with my last cut of .25mg.   Achy and burning skin mostly so I guess I will hang in there and see if titration works for me.  It's just that I've heard valium is easier to tolerate.

:)

 

Melissa -

 

When I first started searching the Internet for info on withdrawing from benzos, the first forum I found advocated only the valium substitution method and wouldn't entertain anything else, even if your doctor wouldn't prescribe it for you.  Then I found BenzoBuddies and found out about titration.  I was able to dry cut all the way but if I hadn't been able to, I would have switched to titration before I would have taken a chance with valium. 

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Beeper,

I think I ran into the same support group and felt really hopeless because it seemed like there was no way I could get off the Ativan without the Valium.  I remember when I found this site it was a relief to get a message from Colin saying that it was absolutely untrue that I couldn't reduce my dose directly.  It was nice to see OPTIONS.  It's scary b/c American docs won't often prescribe Valium so I wonder what people searching on the net do if they don't find this site?  Bless everyone here!

I have decided to just go this route for now.  Stay calm and see what will happen.

thanks!

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I dry cut tapered from Ativan last year and also didn't consider a valium crossover for the reasons noted by teakettle and others.  I dry cut .125mg/week all the way and jumped off at .125mg

 

Because of severe insomnia I was somewhat pushed to go back on benzos but this was temazepam and that's a different beast.  It only comes in capsules so isn't easily divided into smaller portions and I found that it didn't dissolve very well in milk (and it isn't water soluble) so titration didn't work too well either.  So ... I did a valium crossover.  Also, I thought the valium might help with my insomnia (it didn't, really).  Anyway, I made the crossover and have started to taper the valium and so far so good.  I think everyone is different with regards to how any of the benzos affect them so I don't think others' experiences will necessarily tell you what you will feel.

 

I liked sundazed's thoughts about getting down as low with dry cutting as you can before you consider valium.  As I read this I feel I may be sounding pretty wishy-washy so let me just say that if I was you I'd try dry cutting as far as I could and then, if things got bad and I wanted to slow, I'd use titration.  Good luck to you and, whatever you decide, just keep the faith and finish your taper.  The longer you linger, the longer you suffer.  There's no easy way out with this stuff.  Evil but beatable.

 

John

 

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John,

Thanks for the information.  Isn't temazapem a benzo too?  Is it as addictive as Ativan.  I had someone suggest that to me today for sleep instead of seroquel.  I can't tolerate the seroquel so may just reduce the dose and go with insomnia instead.

 

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Yes, temazepam is a benzo.  For me personally it wasn't as addictive as Ativan but, as I said, one thing about benzos is that they affect people in remarkabley different ways and to different extents.  I rejectected using seroquel for a number of reasons and am just trying to suffer through the insomnia as I feel that as long as I have to take some drug to provide sleep that I will be on the losing end eventually.  All that psych stuff scares me and it all has side effects and risks.  Usually, too, one ends up having to taper off any of the psych drugs so deciding to use one of those usually means another taper eventually.  I can't advise you on what is best for you but am just expressing my personal thoughts and part of my decision-making process.  I will offer that I think that if Ativan has caused you difficulty that it would not be in your best interst to take temazepam.  Also, temazepam can't be easily dry cut (since it comes only in capsules in powder form) and I found it doesn't lend itself well to titration, either.

 

I think the adivce given to you earlier to dry cut is the best.  As also advised, if you get down to a low level and have bad s/x's then try titiration.  If that doesn't work you could then consider a crossover to valium, providing you are lucky enough to find a doctor in this country who will do that for you.  Insomnia is a bitch but it may just be that we have to try and tolerate it as the alternatives are at least equally as bad.  Sorry if this doesn't sound all that postitive.  I'm just trying to be honest with you as to my opinions.

 

My best to you in your struggle.

 

John

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
I am in the process of crossing over from Ativan to Valium.  No issues after the first day caused some numbness which happened the last time I did this. That time I did it all at once as I did not know any better.  Using 10 V to 1 Ativ. ratio.  I am doing one dose switch per week.  3 weeks.  Some suggest 1/2 dose per week.
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I am a graduate of Ashton's substitution method. Jackson, if you have any questions or need any advice while you continue your substitution/taper, let me know, and I'd be glad to help you here on the open forum. It took me a month to do the complete substitution from .62mg klonopin to the valium. I mistakenly did a 10:1 ratio instead of a 20:1 ratio which is what Ashon recommends in her table. I think that this mistake actually made things a world easier for me as I became rather lethargic and sleepy after the complete crossover. I even had to reduce this dosage down to 4mg and once I did, I never had a problem with any depression or lethargy again. Best wishes to you!!

Also, melissa, best wishes to you during your direct taper!! How I wish I would have discovered this forum way back when my problems with klonopin started!! I pretty much went about it alone without any benzo forum except that I did discover Ashton's method/manual and this became like a second 'bible' to me as I learned more about what my problems with benzos were... If you are able to directly taper, that's great!! You sound like your doing well! I think that a lot of my issues also were that I'd developed a pretty nasty inter-dose withdrawal to the klonopin. I remember that my wife ended up driving me to the E.R. one evening because my symptoms were so bad and I had NO idea what was happening to me. It's sad, but my 2 young kids had to see their Dad this way... Now that I'm free of the benzos, I'm sure making it up to them every way I can!!

Again, best wishes to you during your taper!! Wishing you lots pf peace and happiness!!

pangelingua

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Thanks for the encouragement!  I am scared to make my next cut but I'm just gonna do it.  I want off so badly.  I hope that I can do the direct taper.  I will probably titrate as I get to a lower dose.    Thanks again :)
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  • 2 weeks later...
Dr. Ashton and this site suggest switching from various meds like Ativan to Valium on a controlled basis due to the higher ratio equivalent making it easier to reduce doses and its longer life making withdrawal less stressful (I even eliminated my mid day dose altogether due to valium lasting from the night before.  These folks are experts.  It was a breeze for me to switch although coming off the valium I am sure is no picnic like any benzo.  Yes, you can switch back.  I did last year when the valium stopped working for sleep but I was not tapering then. 
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